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Post by aaaauroraaaa on Nov 10, 2007 23:11:01 GMT -6
Some of you may remember I've had issues the past couple months with starting the Aurora.
I have ruled out the shift/park interlock.
But it is completely random, however it I don't think it's ever happened when the engine is warm, only cold, for the most part ruling out FPR?
When I go to turn it on, all I hear is the 2-3 second fuel pump prime & a click from under the backseat relay center. No starter clicks, no cranking, no noise, no clean key message.
For the most part it has always started with minimal cranking, when it does crank.
I'm guessing it's the ignition switch harness or starter.
However, I believe for it to be the starter there would have to be longer cranking times leading up to not starting at all, which makes me think it's the ignition switch harness or PASSKEY.
Any one have any ideas?
Starters are plentiful on rockauto/dealership/etc, and have writeups.
I think I saw a writeup for a passkey bypass somewhere as well.
Does anyone know labor/parts cost for harness? or a rockauto gmpartsdirect part number for the ignition switch harness? or how to replace it?
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Post by alecbeaton on Nov 11, 2007 2:52:28 GMT -6
Look at my writeup for the classic starter replacement. I was having this same problem on a customers car, and i also thought it was the starter.
First thing to check: find where the wire is that engages the solenoid, i'm sure someone here can tell you which it is. That's the 12v+ that goes from your ignition switch to the starter itself. Get a test light/volt meter on there and see if THAT wire is getting 12v. when you hit the key, even if the starter doesn't crank.
If that wire is getting the correct signal at all times, you can rule out ignition switch/PASSKEY system. The problem i had, that was IDENTICAL to yours i must say, was that the main power wire on the starter had worked it's way loose over the years, making the wire sit in an odd position and allowing it to pass current sometimes, but not all the time. It would only take you an hour or so to check, just use my writeup.
Hope this helps!
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Post by aaaauroraaaa on Nov 11, 2007 10:57:10 GMT -6
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Post by alecbeaton on Nov 11, 2007 12:35:02 GMT -6
Right. The big black plastic thing under the beauty cover, with the fuel injectors and rail surrounding it. There's like 8 bolts that hold it on, then you just lift up and out of the way.
BTW: i see you have 140k on your car. May be a good idea to run to the stealership and grab a new set of intake gaskets. They clip onto the bottom of the manifold, and it may just be some cheap insurance for further down the road.
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Post by aaaauroraaaa on Nov 11, 2007 18:26:14 GMT -6
So let's see...
I just take off disconnect the "starter lead"(the red box in the engine compartment- so i don't have to disconnect the negative from the battery first?), the grey cover, move/remove all the wires/hoses in the way of the black cover, and underneath the black cover there's a bolt to tighten that is attached to the starter. Just don't drop anything down the metal holes and maybe do the gasket.
sounds like fun. i always manage to get everything apart... putting it together is what is hard :-)
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Post by alecbeaton on Nov 11, 2007 22:36:42 GMT -6
It's really no big deal, i just had to do it AGAIN on my car to repair a massive intake leak. I got it off in about 15 minutes. There's honestly a total of about... idk 10 bolts to remove? The rest is just wiring and vacuum lines. You'll also have to move the front 4 spark plug wires, make sure and # those. And no, i wouldn't recommend disconnecting the starter lead from it's junction under the hood. Always ALWAYS remove the negative cable when working on anything electrical in your vehicle, so as to prevent damage to other electronic systems.
Have fun!
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Post by aaaauroraaaa on Jan 2, 2008 11:51:36 GMT -6
okay. didn't start today even when plugged in.
going to the shop :-(
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Post by austinator on Jan 2, 2008 12:38:36 GMT -6
does your security light stay on?
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Post by aaaauroraaaa on Jan 2, 2008 12:48:35 GMT -6
after I try to start it like 50 million times it comes on (someone is stealing it  ), but when I first try it's usually not on. But when the security light isn't on, I do notice that the gas gauge goes down the longer I hold the key, and goes back up to where it should be when I let off the starter. I remember reading the gas gauge goes by the electrical voltage? |
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Post by austinator on Jan 2, 2008 12:52:02 GMT -6
pull up your voltage on the DIC and see if it drops when you have the key turned all of the way(cranking) but the starter isn't actually running.
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Post by alecbeaton on Jan 2, 2008 13:19:01 GMT -6
That won't work, the DIC turns off when you engage the starter or turn the key to the start position. So do all the other electric items in the car.
As far as your gas gauge, mine goes down when i start my car also, and jumps back when i release the key. So by not starting, do you mean it wouldn't crank or it would crank all day and not fire?
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Post by austinator on Jan 2, 2008 14:04:42 GMT -6
ah...I guess I had never paid attention. I'm pretty sure he means that it isn't cranking. You said that you don't hear the starter solenoid click? Does putting the car in neutral instead of park help at all?
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Post by aaaauroraaaa on Jan 2, 2008 14:21:26 GMT -6
did the park and N thing, no help.
No it doesn't crank at all.
They called and said they are replacing the starter.
He said he is getting voltage at some sort of "S" wire or something.
$662 including tax for the labor, starter, and new valve cover gasket.
EDIT: lol i mean intake manifold gasket
sound okay?
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Post by kaykirk on Jan 2, 2008 14:49:07 GMT -6
I paid between $400 and $440 in August for starter alone.
EDIT I should have said that included installation. We do very little on the Aurora DIY. I don't know about the intake manifold gasket. I know it is located ? under there ? which makes it a pain to do (that's why the hubby didn't do it himself), so I suppose it is possible they replaced that gasket also. I did not go to a dealer, but I did have it done by a professional shop.
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Post by lynzoid on Jan 2, 2008 16:20:55 GMT -6
plenty-o-starters on ebay = most below 100usd
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Post by alecbeaton on Jan 2, 2008 18:41:18 GMT -6
That's rediculously high. The last one i did at my shop we only charged the customer ~380 installed.
He must be getting voltage at the solenoid wire. That's what i mentioned in my first post. He just ruled out everything else in the circuit, and narrowed it down to the starter itself. I'd say that price is a bit high though, but then again i don't know what the intake gaskets cost. There shouldn't be any more labor to install those though, you have to take it apart to do the starter anyways.
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Post by aaaauroraaaa on Jan 4, 2008 15:37:27 GMT -6
Okay final bill was:
$240/labor
$254/starter
$57/tow
$14/shop supplies
+ $21/tax
= $587
He ended up re-using the same intake gasket, he said it looked fine.
But i mentioned this in JimW's fuelpump thread, the day after i got it, it makes this wierd high pitched sound that stays constant in tone and volume at idle, I can't really hear it inside the car, but it's noticeable outside the car. That and it bogs(500ish rpm, almost stall) a little bit sometimes when I'm slowing down, but revs right back up. it comes from the engine bay, and doesn't make the noise until the engine is warm(5-10 minutes). FPR? intake gasket not tight enough? No SES.
I can tell the starter is new tho lol, it starts right up.
I've driven 200 miles in 2 days after i got it back lol, i'll drive another 50 tonight.
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Post by austinator on Jan 4, 2008 15:43:57 GMT -6
I'd spray around the intake gasket to see. I'm not really a fan of reusing an old one.
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Post by aaaauroraaaa on Jan 4, 2008 15:45:31 GMT -6
I'd spray around the intake gasket to see. I'm not really a fan of reusing an old one. it was replaced once at around 80,000 miles, i didn't look up how much it cost the previous owner tho, i don't know where the folder went at the moment  . He said it'd be another $65 to do a new gasket, but he hadn't taken the engine apart yet to see if it needed it. idk, the people there are really old gruff guys that begin sentences with, "Well listen now...". |
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Post by austinator on Jan 4, 2008 15:50:03 GMT -6
listen then and see if you can hear a leak. It might be ok since it's been done once. It sounds like you might have some sort of vacuum leak though
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Post by kaykirk on Jan 4, 2008 17:36:58 GMT -6
Okay final bill was: $240/labor $254/starter $57/tow $14/shop supplies + $21/tax = $587 He ended up re-using the same intake gasket, he said it looked fine. I can tell the starter is new tho lol, it starts right up. I've driven 200 miles in 2 days after i got it back lol, i'll drive another 50 tonight. Ouch, I looked mine up, it was $440. tow was covered by insurance. remember the picture of my car on the flat bed, that was the day it went to have the starter replaced. |
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Post by alecbeaton on Jan 5, 2008 15:19:35 GMT -6
I can tell you exactly what's making that "jet-engine" sound, as my car does the same exact thing at times. It's the pressure relieve valve mounted on the passenger side of the intake manifold. The gasket around it goes bad, and it'll make that sound. Mine used to have a massive leak there, and i fixed it by loading it up with silicone to seal it. But one good backfire through the intake is enough to ruin the flap and gasket. It's an actual part that can be replaced. Here's a picture so you can see what i'm talking about:  |
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Post by aaaauroraaaa on Jan 5, 2008 15:24:50 GMT -6
I can tell you exactly what's making that "jet-engine" sound, as my car does the same exact thing at times. It's the pressure relieve valve mounted on the passenger side of the intake manifold. The gasket around it goes bad, and it'll make that sound. Mine used to have a massive leak there, and i fixed it by loading it up with silicone to seal it. But one good backfire through the intake is enough to ruin the flap and gasket. It's an actual part that can be replaced. I don't know if i'd call it a jet engine sound... there isn't the throaty roar to the whine, it's more high pitched, but I guess it could be a jet engine sound? Did you end up replacing it or just leave it? |
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Post by alecbeaton on Jan 5, 2008 17:00:57 GMT -6
Well i spose it's not exactly like a jet engine sound, that's just what i associated with the noise when i heard it.
I fixed mine initially by siliconing the entire area you see, where the flap is (surrounded by orange). But then one day i didn't hold the key long enough and it backfired pretty hard through the intake, and it must have knocked a little piece of the silicone loose, so it whistles now.
To see if that's where it's coming from, spray carb cleaner down around where that valve is, it's behind the P/S pump. If the idle changes or the engine sounds any different you've found your leak. The intake has to be removed to replace that valve.
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Post by lanceslambos on Oct 30, 2009 22:44:12 GMT -6
thanks. i'll look into this. wish i had known about it when i had the TB service done last month
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), but when I first try it's usually not on. 
.