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Post by volkster on Dec 30, 2008 14:05:11 GMT -6
I have a 97 Aurora with 80,000 miles. Everything is stock except for a high-flow air intake that I put on about 3 years ago.
Starting last winter, sometimes in the cold, it would not want to start. It would crank and crank, almost catch, crank.... I usually had to jump it or put the charger on it. Finally, it would go POP!, like a backfire, and then it would start and run fine. Occasionally the check engine light would be on for a little while after.
This probably happened 4-5 times last winter, no problems all summer, and then 2-3 times this winter.
This last time, after the POP under the hood, it didn't start. I got it to run roughly for a while, but couldn't keep it going.
It will crank and try to start, sometimes lots of little popping (backfiring?), but it won't run.
I don't even know where to start on this one.
Suggestions?
Ideas?
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Randy T.
Administrator
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Post by Randy T. on Dec 30, 2008 15:26:30 GMT -6
Fuel pump is what I would check. Check your pressure at the fuel rail. Should be around 50-55 psi when you turn the key on without starting it. Rent one from your parts store or you can buy them at Harbor Freight for $12.
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Post by ntrenn on Dec 30, 2008 15:41:35 GMT -6
EGR valve stuck open last time it 'popped'...5 minutes to check.
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Post by Speed Neon on Dec 30, 2008 16:40:29 GMT -6
i'm going with poor fueling.
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Post by kaykirk on Dec 30, 2008 17:05:45 GMT -6
I was thinking fuel pump too but you should probably start with the FPR and fuel filter. These items are less expensive and fairly easy to do (and no Scotty, I have not done these things ;D but I hear they are easy to do ) you say it is a 97 with only 80K miles (must be nice) have the plugs and wires ever been changed? I would do that too if it hasn't been done probably won't fix this problem but with the age of the car it is probably due
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scottydl
Super Moderator
There's nothin' like an American V-8...
Posts: 7,373
Staff Member
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Post by scottydl on Dec 30, 2008 17:24:07 GMT -6
My old Bonneville did that "popping" and the backfiring eventually split the upper intake in two like the San Andreas fault (those intakes were plastic and prone to failure, unlike our Auroras). Later after the car had been towed to the dealership, the tech started up the engine and it caught on fire. Engine compartment was completely melted and car was totaled. But the insurance settlement is how I bought my Aurora, so there was a silver lining. ;D
The problem was the Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR).
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Post by volkster on Dec 31, 2008 14:03:48 GMT -6
Thanks! I'll check the fuel pressure and the EGR (if I can do it w/o needing a new gasket) tonight and let you know what I find.
Can anyone explain why low fuel pressure would cause backfiring?
Scottydl- I bought my Aurora with an insurance settlement from a Bonne fire too! I didn't have anyone to blame, though. I just woke up one morning to (I thought) some idiot laying on their horn. I finally looked out the window and it was my SSEi, and the dash was on fire. I loved that car. But the Aurora has been good to us, until lately.
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Post by volkster on Jan 1, 2009 22:56:55 GMT -6
I ordered a fuel pressure gauge and it's on the way- no local parts stores rent them out.
It seems like good pressure, but I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 25 psi and 50 psi with my finger. I did notice that the fitting from the plastic fuel line to the fuel rail was leaking just a little. NAPA sold me the wrong O rings for the fitting, then my buddy, who was "helping", bent the plastic line a little too far for 20 degree weather... so I'll be replacing the whole line and fitting from the firewall to the fuel rail. I doubt if this was the real problem, but it's good to get it fixed... or it will be, if I ever get the real issue taken care of.
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scottydl
Super Moderator
There's nothin' like an American V-8...
Posts: 7,373
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Post by scottydl on Jan 2, 2009 12:15:14 GMT -6
Can anyone explain why low fuel pressure would cause backfiring? With a bad FPR, I think it's just an issue of inconsistent pressure (not always low). Sometimes there is not enough pressure to ignite and start the engine, but then it will flood through and cause a small explosion in there (backfiring). There are several of us previous Bonnie owners that ended up with Auroras. But I think you and I are the first ones that were brought over by a fire.
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Post by myolds on Jan 2, 2009 22:22:14 GMT -6
Replace the fuel pressure regulator.
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Post by myolds on Jan 2, 2009 22:23:59 GMT -6
Sounds like the same issue my Aurora had. Replace the fuel pressure regulator and you should be fine.
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Post by volkster on Jan 6, 2009 10:50:40 GMT -6
Cool. Fuel Pressure Regulators don't seem too expensive.
Autozone has an FPR with nylon rail for $45.99 and an FPR with a stainless rail for $85.99. Both have a 1 year warranty. Any reason to spend an extra $40?
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Post by Speed Neon on Jan 6, 2009 11:28:25 GMT -6
the stainless rail is i believe the factory before recall rail. or the vice versa. i will run to my classic and confirm.
that said the stainless rail was a different design. and is rarer due to the recall. as many N* were fixed before being sold, or quickly repaired under recall.
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Post by volkster on Jan 11, 2009 16:05:33 GMT -6
Well, the pressure gauge showed up and I repaired the fuel lines and put in a new filter.
13 psi... I guess it's time for a new pump. I know they want you to replace the whole assembly, but I don't really feel like putting $400 into it. Is it that big of a deal to just replace the actual pump and the screens?
Does anyone have a supplier that they recommend? (or suggest that I avoid)
And is the 97 really not interchangeable with any other years?
I'm not in a huge hurry to fix this, but my Mazda kinda sucks in the snow- RWD and 9" wide tires....
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Randy T.
Administrator
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Post by Randy T. on Jan 11, 2009 17:32:54 GMT -6
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Post by volkster on Jan 12, 2009 11:30:29 GMT -6
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Post by paulym on Jan 12, 2009 17:41:01 GMT -6
so did you replace the fuel pressure regulator and if so did it work? we just had the fuel pump/filter/housing replaced for 800. now the car has flooded itself twice and doesn't turn over (this is what we took it in for in the first place). we are now told that it needs a fuel pressure regulator, computer coolant sensor and thermostat.....along with new plugs and wires all for 1200.
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Post by volkster on Jan 13, 2009 8:44:04 GMT -6
I did not replace the FPR. My understanding is that a bad FPR will give inconsistent fuel pressures whereas a bad fuel pump will give low fuel pressure. My fuel pressure is low.
It sounds to me like your mechanic likes to just start replacing parts (as long as you are paying for it). Any one of those could be contributing to your problem, but odds are not all of them. If he were my mechanic and he hadn't fixed the problem after $800.... at the very least, he would be refunding the labor charges. He's a mechanic, not a doctor- you don't pay him even if he didn't fix it.
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Post by paulym on Jan 15, 2009 13:15:35 GMT -6
2 different mechanics. The first time it was an emergency and closer to work......that was the fuel pump issue. This other mechanic (closer to home) isn't charging and changing quite so quickly which is good and since it didn't start again after FPR, plugs and wires he is fixing it for free. I am going to try to get some money back from the other place for sure. Still no way to be sure I even needed the fuel pump in the first place. Lesson learned.
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g26
Aurora Groupie
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Post by g26 on Jan 15, 2009 16:46:37 GMT -6
Sorry to hear of your problems. I hope you get if fixed this time.
G26
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Post by 55624096 on Jan 16, 2009 5:16:01 GMT -6
you can buy just the new fuel pump no plastic junk from "efuelpumps.com" get E8785-899KM Module Pump Replacement Kit for 107.83 including freight. I bought one of these 15,000 miles ago and it is still going fine. Also you might get Fuel Pump tool J39765 to remove the retaining ring, it can be a terror. Be sure to get new gasket for the seal or you will have a leak.
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Post by volkster on Jan 26, 2009 13:23:27 GMT -6
I got a pump off Ebay for $75. I think it's the same pump as many GM vehicles, some are only $21 on Ebay, but this one was gaurunteed for my Aurora.
I had to get a new retaining ring for the fuel pump module, mine was rusted away... $12 at the dealer.
Got everything put back together, pressure was good, but still no start. Checked the plugs- probably the ugliest plugs I'd ever seen... I think they were original plus all that dry cranking really covered them with soot.
New plugs- those two bolts behind the coil pack were a *****! My only comfort was in knowing that they would not go back on.
So, the car started right up and began ROARING and bouncing against the cold rev limiter...
I couldn't imagine a vacuum leak that big, but I started looking around. Maybe the backfiring mangled the butterfly valve?
Then I spotted it: The anti-backfire flap. It's hard to see behind the power steering, but I could tell it had come off. No wonder! I loosened the intake manifold enough to tilt it up and got the flap back in place.
WoooooHooooo!
I finally have a running, moving Aurora again!
Thanks so much for all the helpful advice!
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Post by tkoakes on Feb 12, 2009 19:59:56 GMT -6
When it backfired, did it leave a smell like gunpowder? I have a 95 that will occasionally backfire, and it really smells. I'll check the valve tomorrow to see if that could be the problem on mine. Thanks!
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aurora9740
Aurora Passenger
1897 to 1997...the 100 year car!
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Post by aurora9740 on Mar 14, 2009 17:10:14 GMT -6
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Post by 55624096 on Mar 15, 2009 12:52:37 GMT -6
you can get a new pump from www.efuelpumps.com, Aurora pump code is E8785-899KME price including frate was 107.83 in 2007. This is a kit that has everything you need to rebuilt the pump assembly. You will need a new fuel Seal and retaining ring if you have average luck the retaing ring and seal should be about $15.00 at the Delco dealer. In the worst case you will need a special tool #J39765 to remove the retaining ring. If you are lucky you can hammer the old ring off without the special tool.
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