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Post by ntrenn on Mar 10, 2013 19:38:10 GMT -6
Not sure what you're going to gain by the process. Quick check of Rockauto shows the same AC Delco injector used for 2G Aurora and Caddy N* and a different part number for the Classic but used across all N*'s. That would say that the stock injectors will flow enough to feed a 4.6 without any modifications to the fuel system. Unless you're into a boosted application, they should be able to dump in all the fuel the motor's going to need.
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Post by Kersh on Mar 12, 2013 12:49:46 GMT -6
A note regarding the CTS-V...It uses a 6 lug wheel (6x 4.53"). The standard CTS uses the standard 5x115mm pattern.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 12, 2013 20:50:27 GMT -6
Not sure what you're going to gain by the process. Quick check of Rockauto shows the same AC Delco injector used for 2G Aurora and Caddy N* and a different part number for the Classic but used across all N*'s. That would say that the stock injectors will flow enough to feed a 4.6 without any modifications to the fuel system. Unless you're into a boosted application, they should be able to dump in all the fuel the motor's going to need. I don't really know except what I have heard, aurorabrain said he had the 2g injectors when he ran a 15.15 1/4 mile in an Aurora. "Yeah, about that. I ran 2nd gen injectors in my Classic and ran a 15.15 in the quarter mile with them. I have to believe that they have a better spray pattern than the stock classic injectors. The gas mileage was reduced to about 22 mpg max and 15 avg with my driving. LS1 injectors were essentially too large and fuel trims were far from normal. I ran Ecotec injectors for a little while and they are a little large also. I've tried '06 northstar injectors also, but the gas mileage and performance is very similar to the 2nd gen injectors. I have yet to find the perfect injector upgrade, but for now if i was going to the drag strip i'd be running 2nd gen ones. If you have a classic, you need a spare injector harness with the correct plugs on it to do this."-aurorabrain About the CTS-V brake upgrade, you use 2005 Mustang GT500 rotors for the install, they are 5 lug. "2005 Mustang GT500 Rotors (Centric One piece will work well and are CHEAP)Get it on RockAuto Part # 12061089" -drunkie Grand Prix forums.net
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bobsblue95
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Post by bobsblue95 on Mar 13, 2013 11:40:01 GMT -6
I am now considering deleting the block reseal idea, this motor is pretty much dry around the oil pan, and I don't think it will be an issue. I understand. In that case I'd suggest you at least clean thoroughly around the gasket edges with lacquer thinner and run a band of rtv all around it, work it in with your fingers and leave a fairly thick bead. Hint: Spit works better than anything to keep rtv from sticking to your fingers. There's something called "The Right Stuff" that you want to use. I think it's Permatex, I know AutoZone carries it.
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Post by Rocinante on Mar 13, 2013 19:35:15 GMT -6
I am now considering deleting the block reseal idea, this motor is pretty much dry around the oil pan, and I don't think it will be an issue. I understand. In that case I'd suggest you at least clean thoroughly around the gasket edges with lacquer thinner and run a band of rtv all around it, work it in with your fingers and leave a fairly thick bead. Hint: Spit works better than anything to keep rtv from sticking to your fingers. There's something called "The Right Stuff" that you want to use. I think it's Permatex, I know AutoZone carries it. Why lacquer thinner? Wouldn't a spray can of brake cleaner suffice?
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bobsblue95
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Post by bobsblue95 on Mar 14, 2013 10:20:38 GMT -6
Probably. If using a spray though, you still need to wipe around it with a clean rag to remove any debris that may be clinging. The point is to prep the surface, just like if you were painting it.
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Post by sall on Mar 14, 2013 11:23:59 GMT -6
Cans of brake parts cleaner go so fast and aren't really cheap IMO. Acetone is cheap, but is it safe for the actual pan gasket if in contact?
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bobsblue95
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Post by bobsblue95 on Mar 14, 2013 14:29:08 GMT -6
I'd be leary of using Acetone. It will almost instantly rust any steel in the vicinity.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 14, 2013 19:33:35 GMT -6
I am now considering deleting the block reseal idea, this motor is pretty much dry around the oil pan, and I don't think it will be an issue. I understand. In that case I'd suggest you at least clean thoroughly around the gasket edges with lacquer thinner and run a band of rtv all around it, work it in with your fingers and leave a fairly thick bead. Hint: Spit works better than anything to keep rtv from sticking to your fingers. There's something called "The Right Stuff" that you want to use. I think it's Permatex, I know AutoZone carries it. Thank you! That's awesome because I had this same idea last night before I even read what you posted here.
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Post by sall on Mar 15, 2013 10:24:26 GMT -6
I'd be leary of using Acetone. It will almost instantly rust any steel in the vicinity. My fault Bob. For some reason I thought you said acetone when you really said laquer thinner.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 18, 2013 20:37:06 GMT -6
Turned my parts car around in storage, dropped subframe, determined it would be easier to get a friend with a truck rather than to try and fit the subframe in my trunk. Make note of the broken sway bar links, if you have stock links they are probably ready to break, classic and 2g, I have seen them in the same condition on both.
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Post by renaldo0613 on Mar 19, 2013 9:23:28 GMT -6
Soo that's where the rack and pinion resides at.... you have to go threw all that just to change the rack??
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 25, 2013 18:48:40 GMT -6
I don't think you have to remove all of that, it should come out one of the sides. I got the front sub-frame to the shop today. Still have been working on valve covers, about to the point of painting them, I ground a little too much off the rear one, hope it turns out ok, or I will get another. I just bought an extra rear one Friday, but it's so pitted and bumped it's not worth fixing up, I really just needed it to keep the motor covered while I cleaned one. I will be glad when this cold weather is done, I will be able to get more done. I got some closer pics of the rack for the recently interested people. Here is another typical sway bar link, if yours is stock, it's probably like this. This inner exhaust manifold liner drives me crazy. I have been thinking of a way to get it out. It could be attempted by force, but I don't think that will get it all, it would probably have to be cut in half and then welded back together. Here is a newer 4.6 Northstar cutaway, but it's the same style exhaust, with the inner exhaust liner. I noticed on a '95 the other day it had a totally different design, I knew the "y" pipe and stuff was different, but the exhaust manifold itself looked very much like headers. I wonder if they have the inner liner on these type of manifolds? Does anyone have one that is off the car to inspectigate?
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Post by renaldo0613 on Mar 25, 2013 19:12:02 GMT -6
thanks for the pics of the rack lol.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 25, 2013 21:18:36 GMT -6
You are welcome recently interested people. lol
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 26, 2013 18:52:03 GMT -6
I got the sub-frame stripped down and ready for cleanup. Noticed some interesting things I will post in pictures below. Now, check out these rotten rubber frame mounts, rotten metal frame cup(good one on top), and a rotten bolt that was even bent. The one on the bottom is what they are supposed to look like. It seems that, like the sway bar links, water gets trapped in these areas and causes major problems, I would think some Auroras farther North might be in poorer condition. This would be a good weekend project, drop the drivetrain, change trans side cover filter, and check all subframe mounts. It took very little pressure to finish this off, less than 10 lbs. Oh, and how could I forget, I got 2 Aurora pcms sent off to Ion from Madtuners yesterday. Getting that part of the project in motion. I will post a whole separate thread concerning the subject at some point.
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Post by shelbyracing on Mar 26, 2013 19:36:29 GMT -6
Moly Grease those big time! And how about 4.6 vs 4.0 exhaust manifold inner diameters?
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Post by rorafan on Mar 26, 2013 20:54:59 GMT -6
Good gawd those are nasty! It seems that, like the sway bar links, water gets trapped in these areas and causes major problems, I would think some Auroras farther North might be in poorer condition. I bet that's exactly what happens...add road salt to the mix and it's just trouble. I've seen quite a few Bonnevilles and LeSabres around here that have not only this issue w/ the mounts but the subframe itself rusts out either at the mounting locations or right in the center. In fact the subframe issue sent my buddy's '94 Bonne to the JY last year. Here's just one example: minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/cto/3694198897.html"The car ran and drove great but the subframe recently fell down due to underbody rust through. NOT DRIVEABLE. " This environment is killer on cars. My Aurora spent most of its life in Ariz. and had the full Ziebart rustproofing treatment once it got here but I still worry.
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Post by oneye on Mar 27, 2013 4:42:36 GMT -6
That's the way mine looked too, Randy, when I did the swap. Ended up replacing all the rubber and all but one of the cups -- had to cave to the dealership for those, but was glad to have done it when it came to re-assembly.
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RCA1186
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Post by RCA1186 on Mar 27, 2013 6:06:00 GMT -6
That right there is what killed my old taurus
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 27, 2013 6:39:26 GMT -6
Shelbyracing, I have not had a chance to compare the exhaust.
I didn't realize this was such a problem, it really can't help handling any being like this, either ,lol. The way I drive I would hate to think about my car being like this. I am going to check out my body frame mount areas while I have the motor out. If they are bad I will have to have them cut out and replaced. If that's the case, that will really slow my swap time down.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 27, 2013 19:01:30 GMT -6
I measured the 4.6 rear exhaust output diameter, and the crossover output diameter, they are exactly the same as the Aurora.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 31, 2013 9:32:51 GMT -6
PCM had a quick turnaround, Madtuner does not mess around! It's in KC already, expecting delivery tomorrow. The only bummer is I won't be able to use it until the 4.6 with the proper trans ratio is installed. I have spent a little time around the new used Cadillac trans, it's telling me it's good and asking for a chance to run my car. I am still thinking about it. I will change the side cover filter, the looks of the insides should give me more clues to aid my decision.
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Post by renaldo0613 on Mar 31, 2013 12:48:43 GMT -6
Cant wait for that PCM to come back to you
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Post by renaldo0613 on Mar 31, 2013 12:49:50 GMT -6
I got the sub-frame stripped down and ready for cleanup. Noticed some interesting things I will post in pictures below. Now, check out these rotten rubber frame mounts, rotten metal frame cup(good one on top), and a rotten bolt that was even bent. The one on the bottom is what they are supposed to look like. It seems that, like the sway bar links, water gets trapped in these areas and causes major problems, I would think some Auroras farther North might be in poorer condition. This would be a good weekend project, drop the drivetrain, change trans side cover filter, and check all subframe mounts. It took very little pressure to finish this off, less than 10 lbs. Oh, and how could I forget, I got 2 Aurora pcms sent off to Ion from Madtuners yesterday. Getting that part of the project in motion. I will post a whole separate thread concerning the subject at some point. Oh man you have got me nervous.... Now im going to have to find somewhere/somehow to drop mines out.
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Post by Randy T. on Apr 1, 2013 18:48:29 GMT -6
I would have some extra mounts ready just in case. I am going to look for some newer mounts on a salvage run. New ones are pretty cheap, but I can get a bunch for a lot cheaper and choose the ones I want. I really can't wait to get the motor in! Buying what I can here and there, need paint next for the subframe and valve covers. Good news, though! I got my Madtuner tuned PCM back today! Super fast turnaround and shipping from Madtuner! This is no April fools joke, this stuff is real! ;D I really can't wait to get the motor in. Funny, though, my camera batteries are almost completely dead and I can't find my charger. But, I have a couple extra cameras I can use, so there will be no issues with full documentation of everything. Here is a pic of the sheet from Madtuner, sitting on my steering wheel.
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Post by sall on Apr 1, 2013 19:11:29 GMT -6
Excellent!
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Post by renaldo0613 on Apr 1, 2013 23:02:44 GMT -6
oh buddy!! im so excited for you!!! I cant wait to see the final results.
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Post by XJSman89 on Apr 2, 2013 0:00:32 GMT -6
Awesome, man! Can't wait to get her on the dyno and get some numbers. I'm sure you'll be glad to be rid of that old busted 4.0 too.
Forgive me if I missed anything, but what will keep it from pinging during a WOT run? Does the computer take out/add enough timing for that? I wouldn't want to blow up your 4.6 on our dyno!
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Post by Randy T. on Apr 2, 2013 6:27:48 GMT -6
Thanks guys!
Xjs, I don't know what would keep it from pinging or cause it to ping, so I don't know, lol. Maybe that is why the tune requires high octane gasoline?
I will actually miss my current motor, I love the way it sounds when I accelerate, it runs great, and I hope to stud it at some point in the future, the bottom end is totally good on it. I am also not concerned about blowing up motors or transmissions, pick n pull has motors all day for $200 and I install them myself, so it's no thang but a chicken wang. I paid over $800 for this 4.6, but pick n pull had not opened yet, or I would have gotten a few for the same price.
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