Steering wheel button and aftermarket radio

[wfooshee]

I did the stuff in the sticky here to get my HVAC buttons back after installing an aftermarket (Alpine) radio. Works great. 

Then I ordered an SWC adapter (Axxcess ASWC-1) to get the audio buttons working with my Alpine radio, and it won't go. It's an either/or situation. If I disconnect the factory radio (hidden under the dash) then the aftermarket SWC unit programs perfectly, and I get audio control on the steering wheel, but then I lose HVAC control and date on the DIC.

If I leave the factory radio connected the SWC adapter goes through the motions, reports that it found an Alpine radio, but none of the buttons work correctly. Fan up does nothing, fan down does temp up, Vol up and Vol dn both do vol up, Seek does vol down, and Prog does vol down and fan down both, completely scrambled. If I go through the manual programming steps rather than letting the adapter auto-discover, I get similar results: It reports success, but button function is completely scrambled.

Is there a way to have both? Can I get the radio buttons on the wheel to work an aftermarket radio and have the HVAC buttons work the climate system? 

[sall]

I use JoyCon with my CarPC and have the factory installed as a slave. No issues here.

[wfooshee]

Not having a CarPC, I'm not sure that helps me any. JoyCon is specific to a CarPC connection.

[RCA1186]

I bought an adapter for this very purpose the other day but haven't installed yet (radio comes today). The adapter you have doesn't control the HVAC? I didn't think about there being issues with signal coming from the factory radio. My plan was to use the adapter for the radio and HVAC controls and the factory radio for the date. Hmm, I guess I'll have to report back after I get into my dash for the install..

[sall]

Merely stating it is working here with factory radio connected as a slave for date/hvac and joycon for steering wheel controls therefore two devices connected is doable. Why SWC won't work, I don't know. Perhaps try with a different aftermarket head unit(experiment) or the Metra steering wheel control device. As I see several instances where the PAC SWI jack does not work in the same scenario. Good luck!

[wfooshee]

The joycon pulls the button information into a USB interface, which may be part of its ability to separate the two. Just guessing.

I tried placing the adapter box both "upstream" and "downstream" of the factory radio on the E5 wire, nothing changed. The E1 wire is the data output from the factory radio to the rest of the car, including the HVAC and (if equipped) the CD changer. The steering wheel buttons come into the radio on the light green E5 wire as resistor values. That's where the adapter taps in. My adapter is apparently not smart enough to ignore values it's not translating for the Alpine and just let them through, as I'd assumed would happen. Maybe a different brand would work, but it will get expensive just trying them and finding that they don't work, then being unable to return them as they've been opened, wires cut, etc. With manual programming, I could even hijack the HVAC buttons to other radio functions.

Right now I have to decide if I want to control the radio or the HVAC from the steering wheel. Either one works without the other connected.

It's too bad I can't separate the two sets of buttons to individual output lines from the wheel, but that would require some fabrication that I just can't do, another contact ring in the wheel hub, for one thing. There's already horn, buttons, and air bag in there, and I'm pretty sure they didn't build a spare connection in the clockspring.

May 26, 2015 6:33:48 GMT -6 RCA1186 said:

I bought an adapter for this very purpose the other day but haven't installed yet (radio comes today). The adapter you have doesn't control the HVAC? I didn't think about there being issues with signal coming from the factory radio. My plan was to use the adapter for the radio and HVAC controls and the factory radio for the date. Hmm, I guess I'll have to report back after I get into my dash for the install..

The factory radio gets ALL of the steering wheel button output, decodes it, and if it's HVAC, passes it along on another data line. Those buttons simply don't work without the factory radio, and an adapter can't pass them along because it's not outputting to the car's serial bus, just to the aftermarket radio. You will also lose the date on the DIC when the factory radio comes out.

[RCA1186]

I bought that PAC SWI, according to it's installation manual it SHOULD be able to control the HVAC. Gives you instructions for programming the specific buttons (fan up and down, temp up and down) and makes a point of saying "with temp controls" in the vehicale application guide. So I don't know, can't see why it would just say that it can do it and not be able to.

But I understand what you are saying, it would be getting the commands from the wheel but only would be sending commands to the aftermarket radio with no connection to the HVAC. But couldn't you just split the signal from the E5 wire? (as in connect them both) I'm getting a little confused. Is the adapter interrupting the signal to the factory radio? I would think with them both connected the adapter and factory radio would both receive the signal from the wheel simultaneously. In that case wouldn't the adapter still receive an input from the fan controls but do nothing since nothing is programmed for that signal (and it has no connection to the HVAC to output it to)? Meanwhile the factory radio receives the signal as normal and outputs it to the HVAC?

Or does having the adapter in there throw off the resistor values somehow? I guess I just don't see why the adapter/factory radio are having trouble as they are both receiving the signal, the adapter doesn't have any output to the factory radio, its output wire is only connected to the aftermarket H/U. The only connection between the adapter and radio would be a wire that's receiving resistor values from the wheel to send to the adapter and factory radio but wouldn't be getting any kind of signal back from either device (i/e I don't see how either one would affect the other as neither is outputting anything through that wire, just receiving.) Unless the adapter itself is acting as a sort of resistor in the signal.. This is sounding more complicated than I thought it would be haha, and I installed both of these things before, just never together..


Like I said I'll have to see, probably installing today I think.

[sall]

May 26, 2015 16:24:13 GMT -6 wfooshee said:

You will also lose the date on the DIC when the factory radio comes out.

Yes, unless you have a '95 model.

[wfooshee]

May 27, 2015 7:05:01 GMT -6 RCA1186 said:

I bought that PAC SWI, according to it's installation manual it SHOULD be able to control the HVAC. Gives you instructions for programming the specific buttons (fan up and down, temp up and down) and makes a point of saying "with temp controls" in the vehicale application guide. So I don't know, can't see why it would just say that it can do it and not be able to.

But I understand what you are saying, it would be getting the commands from the wheel but only would be sending commands to the aftermarket radio with no connection to the HVAC. But couldn't you just split the signal from the E5 wire? (as in connect them both) I'm getting a little confused. Is the adapter interrupting the signal to the factory radio? I would think with them both connected the adapter and factory radio would both receive the signal from the wheel simultaneously. In that case wouldn't the adapter still receive an input from the fan controls but do nothing since nothing is programmed for that signal (and it has no connection to the HVAC to output it to)? Meanwhile the factory radio receives the signal as normal and outputs it to the HVAC?

Or does having the adapter in there throw off the resistor values somehow? I guess I just don't see why the adapter/factory radio are having trouble as they are both receiving the signal, the adapter doesn't have any output to the factory radio, its output wire is only connected to the aftermarket H/U. The only connection between the adapter and radio would be a wire that's receiving resistor values from the wheel to send to the adapter and factory radio but wouldn't be getting any kind of signal back from either device (i/e I don't see how either one would affect the other as neither is outputting anything through that wire, just receiving.) Unless the adapter itself is acting as a sort of resistor in the signal.. This is sounding more complicated than I thought it would be haha, and I installed both of these things before, just never together..


Like I said I'll have to see, probably installing today I think.

Everything you're saying is exactly what I had assumed. I don't know why they bother each other.

There is only one line from the steering wheel (light green to pin E5 of the radio plug,) and it carries whatever voltage results from the resistance of the button being pressed. Both the factory radio and now the SWC adapter merely tap onto that wire, which ends at the blue connector for the radio, with no reason to go into the factory radio. I have a wire soldered onto that light green wire that goes down to the E5 connection on the factory radio, and the wire specified in the instructions for the SWC adapter also taps that light green wire.

I thought maybe having one of them "in front" of the other one would make a difference, but it doesn't. I've tapped each device between the wheel and the other device, no change in behavior. Each works perfectly without the other, but neither works correctly with both attached. I think what's happening is that the factory radio and the adapter each present a load on that light green wire, which then changes the resistance being read by either device. It just occurred to me that maybe all I need is a diode on each line to isolate them from each other, make each one invisible to the other.......

Stay tuned!

[RCA1186]

Which was going to be my next suggestion (the diodes that is). But, it appears my adapter has a second output wire that instructs you to wire to dark green E1. Also stay tuned haha

[RCA1186]

Alright all wired up with no such problems on my end, interface is programmed and controls the radio and HVAC, only have the dark green E1 connected at the factory unit to retain the date and E5 and E1 connected at the PAC. Everything working as I intended woohoo

[wfooshee]

So your adapter has an output to the dark green, while mine does not. I'll see if I can isolate these guys with diodes, then the PAC will be my next option. It was between that one and this one, and I found this one really cheap, which made my mind up. If I had to I could probably unload it back to eBay for about what I gave, even opened up.

[RCA1186]

Ran into another quirk. Buttons weren't working when driving last night. Re-programmed this morning working fine...UNTIL I start the car, then they seemed to shift, volume down made it go up, track up was volume down, etc. Thought maybe the factory radio was causing it, like different signals when the car is running, turn the car off and they go back to what they are programmed for. Unplugged the factory radio and same problems.

So I figured the problem is in the PAC. Then I figured, well, it changes when the engine is running, so how about programming when the engine is running? Tried that, and on several starts and restarts all buttons are now functional while driving. The caveat to this is they are screwed up with engine off key on. I can't figure out for the life of me why the program on the PAC gets changed when the engine is running or not, but I'm happy with how it is as I wont really be using the controls with engine off anyways haha.

So once again, back to having all controls and the date again. AND very happy to have bluetooth music and calling in the old girl. Was getting a little tired of CD's haha.

[wfooshee]

It wouldn't have done that if you hadn't bragged about it earlier.....

OTOH, engine not running may give a lower voltage at the battery, which changes the reading of the resistors. After all, all it's doing is looking at the voltage coming out. If it starts lower, it ends lower.

[RCA1186]

May 28, 2015 8:27:00 GMT -6 wfooshee said:

It wouldn't have done that if you hadn't bragged about it earlier.....

OTOH, engine not running may give a lower voltage at the battery, which changes the reading of the resistors. After all, all it's doing is looking at the voltage coming out. If it starts lower, it ends lower.

I couldn't help it, I was excited

That does make perfect since though, the stock h/u must have a couple values programmed in to counteract that. Oh well, I'm glad it didn't take me long to think to program it running haha didn't even have to tear into the wires.

While I'm at it. What kind of dash mounting kit did you get? This is the second Aurora I have installed an aftermarket h/u on and on both the kit sits just a TAD too far forward making the vent trim bezel not mount right (the bottom hangs out. Do you have this problem? If you did, did you find a fix for it? I remember trying some 3m trim tape to hold it down but that didn't last long. Only thing I can think of is shaving back the plastic on the dash kit a bit, but that would be a pain.

[wfooshee]

I just broke off the tabs that the bezel snaps to the stock radio with. It's held in pretty much by the air vents only, but it's firmly in place.

[RCA1186]

I did that with my last Aurora. Was hoping for other ideas haha.

[wfooshee]

Well, I haven't been able to electronically separate the factory radio (for HVAC) and the adapter (for radio controls) so I've ordered the PAC adapter which is aware of the HVAC buttons and has the output for them. Found it on Amazon for 32 bucks!

[RCA1186]

It works well, just make sure you program it with the car running! haha. I've also noticed that if the voltage dips (it comes down to high 13's sometimes if I have defrost, headlights, hvac on) It will also cause the buttons to be non-functional. I'm going to clean up some grounds and maybe add some as shown in this thread see if it stops the voltage drop.

[wfooshee]

Done! Perfect!

The compatibility list for the PAC SWI-RC does not list the classic Aurora, just the second-gen, but they list 4 different combinations of power connectors and steering wheel controls on the 2nd-gen and one of those is the 32-pin radio connector and the HVAC buttons on the wheel as found in the superior classic.



Steps, for future reference if it helps someone later:

Hook up the PAC SWI-RC's red wire to switched power, the black wire to ground, green wire to E5 (light green) on the blue radio connector and blue wire to E1 (dark green.)

Set the dial on the side to the radio brand. Mine was '1' for Alpine.

Hold the programming button while turning on the ignition (don't need to start yet) and then let go of the button. Then press the button 4 times, wait 3 seconds and watch the LED flash 4 times. Turn the ignition off. This sets what they call Version 4 in the unit, enabling HVAC control output. (If it didn't flash four times, repeat this step.)

Now you're ready to program the steering wheel buttons. It may take some planning, because you program the buttons simply by holding them for five seconds each, in the right sequence. That sequence depends on your radio brand, and you have to press the programming button if there's a function you need to skip. The instructions list the order of functions by radio brand. SEEK wasn't available for Alpine, so I elected to go with Track+ and Track- in place of SEEK and PROG. There were four functions I had to skip after the volume buttons to get to Track+.

To start programming, start the car. The device flashes four times to show that it's in version 4 mode. To start programming, press and release the programming button. The LED illuminates.

Press and hold the Temp UP button for 5 seconds. While holding it, the LED goes out. When you let go of the button it comes back on.

Now press and hold the Temp DN button for five seconds, then Fan UP, and then Fan DN.

The LED flashes once and then lights again, telling you HVAC is done and it's ready to proceed with radio.

Hold Vol UP for five seconds. LED behaves the same: off while you hold the button, on when you release.

Vol DN is next.

Here is where I had 4 functions to skip, didn't want them programmed, so I pressed the programming button on the SWI four times, once for each skipped function. Then I pressed SEEK for five seconds, which made it the Track+ function (7th function on the Alpine list,) then I pressed PROG, which made it the Track- function. Then I waited a few seconds and the unit flashed to show it was leaving program mode, then flashed 4 times to report its version mode again.

Be aware that you have to move along doing this. If 7 seconds go by without a button from the wheel, the unit exits programming mode. If you weren't done, you have to start over, at the step of pressing the programming button and then holding the Temp UP button.

At this point all 8 steering wheel buttons worked as I'd programmed them. With CD or music player, the Track buttons work as expected, and with tuner, the radio seeks up or down. (I could have programmed Preset+ and Preset- instead of Track + and -, and the radio would have scanned through presets with the buttons, but those functions don't do anything with BT or USB music.)

Put the dash back together and drive around, enjoying steering-wheel control of your radio!

I cut the light green wire going to the factory radio hidden under the dash as I no longer need it to decode HVAC control, but I left the other connections so I still have the date on the DIC. If you haven't done that trick and want date on the DIC, follow all the steps in the thread I referenced in post #1 except for the light green wire. You don't want that going to the factory radio any more.

[RCA1186]

Yep, identical to what I had to do except my seek button I turned into the "mute" for the radio, that made my programming sequence real easy, didn't have to skip any haha. Just had to go straight through all the buttons. Glad you finally got things going!