Head bolt repair w/engine still in car.

[99for200bucks]

Hi,

Bought a diamond white 99  aurora (very cheap, see user name) and it needs head gasket work.
I Can literally taste hydrocarbons in overflow tank so I know it's blowing exhaust by the gasket
into the water jacket. Engine still runs great tho.

I'm going to attempt head bolt thread repair with normserts and ARP head studs with engine still
in the car. I do have some questions first though.

1. Can a head be removed while salvaging the timing chain
position on the intermediate gear below? If the chain slips off the sprocket below it could be a problem
getting it back on with the timing chain cover in place. I was thinking an old school screen door spring
tied to some support or the hood to keep light yet constant tension on the chain while removing the
chain from the upper cam sprockets.  

2. Can the timing chain cover be removed, say with access through the inner fender well and engine
still in the car?

3. Has anyone used normserts? Look to be far superior to timeserts and similar in price.

4. Holding cams in place with chain off...  do they naturally rest in place @ TDC of compression
stroke of #1 cyl. or will the valve springs force them to rotate a bit? Has anyone used or know of a
lock kit or some other device to hold them?

I got the idea from a you tube where I saw someone doing a caddy bolt repair with the engine in place.
I'd have to use an insert going this route to maintain original hole diameter. I'm 99.9 % sure it can't
be done with northstar performance studs due to the larger diameter bottoms they have. Won't fit down
through the hole with with the heads sitting on the car and the head will never clear the firewall enough
to slide down over the studs in the back.

With normserts and ARP studs however, the head can be placed over factory dowel pins to hold
position and then the studs (same diameter as original bolts from one end to the other) can be
placed into the holes and threaded by hand into the normserts just like you would a regular TTY
OEM GM head bolt. Throw the nuts and washers over the top, torque down and off ya go...

That's my plan. I know the engine mounts can be loosened to rotate the engine forward some to give
more clearance at the back. Like 60 degrees I thought I saw somewhere. My silhouette was able to do
that when I did the head gaskets on it (engine in place BTW and it comes out through the bottom as well).

Has anyone attempted this or know of someone who has? I'd have to pick up a 90 degree drill for the
job, but I've always wanted one anyway.


Link to vid of N* repair in the car of rear head (the hard one):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6956YYLd8PU

Front one:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISfcE69cikk


Link to normserts (NS-300L:

www.huhnsolutions.com/


I will post a step by step with pics or vid of the job when I do it. Current money issues are forcing me
to hold off this repair until late Jan/early Feb. Let me know what you think. If this works and is easier
than an engine pull it could benefit others on here. I don't plan on keeping the 4.0 in there forever. If I
change my mind and keep it, I will do a bottom end re-seal with engine in place as well. Tans will
have to come out to do it at which time I'll slip in a looser lock-up TQ converter.

Paul.

[human]

All of that is way above my pay grade except that having owned a Caddy ('97 Deville Concours) and two Auroras (a '98 and a '95), I can tell you there's a whole bunch more room under the hood of a Caddy than there is in an Aurora. This holds true with a late '90s Seville as well. Your ability to accomplish what you describe may be limited by the tight quarters of the Aurora's engine compartment. I'm hot saying that definitively, just sayin'.

Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora

[sall]

Yes, you will not be able to do the rear(right) head without an angle drill. Keeping it square will be the issue. Dropping the subframe would be my advice.

I would recommend N* Performance head studs or carrol custom cadillac. No one has tried these yet that I know of here:

www.northstarstuds.com/studkits.html

[plato442]

I pulled the engine from the top, which wasn't very difficult either. That was I could roll the car out of the garage while I worked on the engine. I used a set of Northstar Performance head stud kits found here www.northstarperformance.com/sgmenu.php

[99for200bucks]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. Plato, Looks like you did a 4.6 swap. Is that the engine you studded? Also, you did a
top pull on a 2nd gen? How much difference from a 1st gen I wonder? Wouldn't that make your 2nd gen the
only one on here with a 4.6?

Did you do the head work yourself? If so, you might have an answer for question #4 for sure (at least the
part about the cams moving off TDC positions when chain removed) and possibly question #1. Any help
would be appreciated. Thanks,


Paul.

  

[RCA1186]

Check out these threads. The pictures/discussions may answer your questions:

Pulling Classic 4.0 from Top


Classic 4.0 Rebuild

[99for200bucks]

Hi Aurora team!

Just ordered these:

www.huhnsolutions.com/index.html

I think Ive seen others use them on this site. I ordered the set that allows for the use of
ARP head studs. He said he was phasing the other ones out anyway as either set of
bolts or studs will work with the ARP insert setup. These are longer than time certs and
the outside threads are the same diameter and pitch as the northstar performance studs.
also same diameter as the big cert that GM has listed as it's "second repair" solution.
Comes with drill guides and instructions.

One other cool thing is the kit is re-usable with a decent discount on a second set of inserts.

It is also in keeping (so far) with my plans to do it while still in the car. Unlike the NP studs,
once the inserts are in place and the heads sitting on block held in place by the dowel guide
pins, you can just thread the ARP studs in place. No need for the extra clearance for clearing
the NP studs.

Price for complete kit = 398.00.

Head studs: Manufacturer Part Number:
141-4204 / HSK Studs Kit for a dodge neon. The Insert guy says this is the kit to use.

www.ebay.com/itm/ARP-Dodge-Neon-2-4L-SRT-4-03-UP-Head-Stud-Kit-SRT4-Turbo-PT-Cruiser/301868277837?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35559%26meid%3Dc09eba5850b047a5afd04b5b957c1a61%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D370611468713

Price = 127.00 times 2.

So, about 100 bucks more than NP studs. For not pulling engine, worth it. Plus I'll have the extra drilling kit
for another set if I decide to do a swap now or later (do a 4.6 on the stand and swap and do the 4.0 after
and sell it)

We'll see how it goes.

Paul.

 

 

[plato442]

Nov 30, 2015 12:21:17 GMT -6 99for200bucks said:

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. Plato, Looks like you did a 4.6 swap. Is that the engine you studded? Also, you did a
top pull on a 2nd gen? How much difference from a 1st gen I wonder? Wouldn't that make your 2nd gen the
only one on here with a 4.6?

Did you do the head work yourself? If so, you might have an answer for question #4 for sure (at least the
part about the cams moving off TDC positions when chain removed) and possibly question #1. Any help
would be appreciated. Thanks,


Paul.

  

Paul, sorry for not catching your post earlier. Yes my 4.6 is studded with N*Performance stud kits, and of course we pulled the engine from the top. Alot of tight and cramped angles getting it out, but it made it a lot easier putting the engine on a stand and drilling the block for the head stud kit. I had the heads resurfaced and had a couple burn valves that were replaced as well. in regards to Q1 & Q4, with the block removed, and the heads placed back on the engine, it was simple to align the timing from what i remember. My Dad actually did all the mechanic work while i slaved away at my job in order to pay for the spendy rebuild! Yes, I may be one of the only 2G Auroras with a 4.6, but others will follow! There's no replacement for displacement! Best of luck and please let us know how it goes!

[bobsblue95]

I'd be surprised if there's enough room to even get a stud into the head/block with the engine in place. At least the ones closest to the firewall. The transaxle will probably not allow you to rotate the engine very much either, even with mounts unbolted.
Timing cover can be done with the engine in, but TBH, I'd recommend pulling the engine out the top. Dropping the subframe creates a whole new set of problems, like not being able to move the car, as noted above. I've done it both ways and dropping the subframe was considerably more difficult without a lift.
The camshaft question... they will rotate very slightly, not even half a tooth. There is a hex section on the shafts you can use to turn them if needed.

I used Northstar Performance studs... I never got a reply when I inquired about Norm's inserts, so I guess they didn't want or need my money.
HTH

[Randy T.]

Dropping the drivetrain out of the bottom is easily done with a jack, stands, and furniture dollies, but then, the car has to stay in place, sometimes causing a problem. Pull it from the top and you have to buy, rent, or borrow a cherry picker.
If you drop drivetrain consider trans side cover filter and TCC solenoid replacement, and would not want to do engine studs without resealing the lower case. The oil bed plate must be replaced when resealing the lower case, gasket is built in.

I myself prefer salvage engines, they are a risk, but so is head studs, not all blocks have a casting that can handle the drilling and tapping, failure is possible. I look for engines from wrecked Cadillacs, last one I got an early '96 and also picked up a brand new GM 4T80E. Early '96 with '95 type engines and earlier Northstars had a different casting, and seem to stay together longer, note how many of these years you still see on the road, all others are in salvage, good cars with bad engines.

Yes, I have used Norms inserts on an LX5 Aurora 3.5 shortstar, same kit as the V8s. I did not care for the guide, it did not seem perfectly level and true, but it worked, and the Aurora is still on the road. I took my time to do it right and it took me forever, probably 40 hrs, but it was my first time at such a project. Like I said, I prefer swapping salvage engines in.

Good luck!

My video does not show all the details but may help you out. Norms kit should be about the same for the 3.5 as the 4.0.

[99for200bucks]

Feb 15, 2016 9:16:09 GMT -6 bobsblue95 said:

I'd be surprised if there's enough room to even get a stud into the head/block with the engine in place. At least the ones closest to the firewall. The transaxle will probably not allow you to rotate the engine very much either, even with mounts unbolted.
Timing cover can be done with the engine in, but TBH, I'd recommend pulling the engine out the top. Dropping the subframe creates a whole new set of problems, like not being able to move the car, as noted above. I've done it both ways and dropping the subframe was considerably more difficult without a lift.
The camshaft question... they will rotate very slightly, not even half a tooth. There is a hex section on the shafts you can use to turn them if needed.

I used Northstar Performance studs... I never got a reply when I inquired about Norm's inserts, so I guess they didn't want or need my money.
HTH

Hi Bob,

I loved your write-up on pulling an engine from the top. If I ever pull one it will be that method. Been meaning to buy a cherry picker anyway. They are relatively
cheap (thank you Harbor Freight). Hopefully I can find one that breaks down into fairly easy to re-assemble pieces for easy space saving storage.

About the head bolt/stud clearance to firewall... I think I have resolved that (in my minds eye anyway). Rubber tubing... Take either the ARP stud (with nuts loosely
in place) or head bolt and rip a piece of rubber tubing the long way. Then cut it to length and place the bolt/stud through the tubing between head/nut and the
top of the cylinder head so that the head bolt/ARP stud almost protrudes through to the bottom of the head. This trick will absorb several inches of space the bolt/stud
would have otherwise needed to be able to clear the head to get in into the hole. You will be using the distance inside the head hole for added clearance. Set all 10
of the bolts up this way BEFORE placing the head on the block.This should also work on the disassembly side of things as well and will let me know right then if the
job is feasible before continuing further. Once head is in place, just pull tubing off using the slit you created earlier and screw the ARP studs or bolts into the Normserts.

Norm from normserts seemed very accessible to me. I just dial the phone, and he (Norm) picks it up. Twice so far with no voicemail needed. The kit looks very
solid. Probably not quite as good as the NP stud kit (only due to the fact that there is one extra thread interface per stud) but the diameter and threading on the
outside of the insert is the same as the NP stud kit. I was a little worried about the depth of the inside thread of the insert until I realized that once the insert is
in place, the ARP stud or bolt to insert interface is steel on steel which if I'm not mistaken is even better than cast iron on steel that have been used on hundreds
of millions of engines. So that calmed my original fears.

One of us here on this forum has to step up and do this. Might as well be me. A lot of apartment complexes won't let you work on cars period. Some may let you do
a head gasket in place though. And no one can really say much about doing it curbside on a residential street a block or 2 from any apartment one may reside in. A
cherry picker or 3 foot high ramps/jack stands may be an issue though in any place but a driveway or garage at a house. (However, I once got away with doing
an early 80's celica 22r engine swap curbside on a side street just off Almaden Expressway near Lincoln ave, in SJ CA). In my case, I have a garage and driveway,
but I also have a 6 inch scar where they ripped my chest open and sawed my breast bone down the middle to drop in a mechanical aortic valve. For that reason and
others, if I can avoid an engine pull, it would be something I'd like to look into. I really just want to get the car back on the road as quickly and with the least pain
possible. This has become sort of a mission for me and could benefit many possible users on here who don't have the space and yet can't afford an expensive shop.

Thanks for the advice,

Paul.