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Post by macadamiaman on Mar 15, 2007 9:21:40 GMT -6
Figured I'd throw this out there to the few people who have any experience...
I recently put the factory GPS nav system in my '01 and it's not working, here's what it does:
I park the car at my University, and when I go to drive anywhere, the car (represented by the triangle) is STILL parked at the exact place where I park in the University. If I drive 10 miles away, it's still at the University - the arrow doesn't move. However, it DOES move to change heading, so it'll pivot around in the same spot when I make the car face different directions.
Everything else works perfectly: Satellites show up and go away when I cover the antenna. Speed (accurate in mph compared to both my Magellan GPS and my speedometer) shows up fine, updated maybe once per second. Elevation is off but does go up and down when I go up and down. Latitude/longitude change when I drive around.
As for the CD, it appears to be fine; POI comes up fine, I can scroll around in the map, I can plot a route from where it *thinks* my car is, to anywhere else, and that works fine.
What I'm wondering is, there must be some setting somewhere that's keeping my car there... cherry2002 suggsted that I might not have a VSS (or functioning) - vehicle speed sensor? Does the 2001 lack this? How can I test that?
One other thing that I was thinking is perhaps the nav system is tied in somehow to the OnStar box? I took mine out over a year ago to do some mods, and I'm not sure where it is in the basement... (everything is all packed up, we're moving)
The factory navigation system was only available on 2002-2003 Auroras, but people have successfully used them in 2001 Auroras as far as I know... maybe I have an early production model?
I'm stumped. Any help appreciated.
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Post by Buddiemac on Mar 15, 2007 11:16:08 GMT -6
I recall the first half of the 2001 model year, the cars did not come with Onstar - you can tell by rearview mirror. The later half of the model year Onstar was standarded. You may want to check which 2001s had this nav unit installed successfully. Onstar also includes a GPS module, not sure how the harness would handle this.
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Post by macadamiaman on Mar 15, 2007 12:12:18 GMT -6
I recall the first half of the 2001 model year, the cars did not come with Onstar - you can tell by rearview mirror. The later half of the model year Onstar was standarded. You may want to check which 2001s had this nav unit installed successfully. Onstar also includes a GPS module, not sure how the harness would handle this. My car does have OnStar - you can also tell by the rear windshield (antenna) and the units in the trunk... Awhile ago I took out the OnStar box to do some mods to it (here: members.cox.net/onstar/ ) and never got around to it. In the meantime I've misplaced that box... hopefully temporarily Yes I was thinking there is some weird relationship between the GPS module of the OnStar unit in the trunk, and the Aurora's nav system. It's the only thing I can think of... Perhaps someone could confirm that for me by disconnecting that box perhaps?
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Post by premiumV on Mar 15, 2007 12:32:23 GMT -6
Sometimes if you get stuck in a secret room where you can't see the walls you need to push in all directions. Eventually you will find the opening.
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Post by thae2541 on Mar 16, 2007 2:03:39 GMT -6
I am having the same exact problem. The map loads fine and the satellites for the GPS are being picked up, but the 'car' on the map does not move at all. I don't know if the GPS antenna is bad? Or if maybe it's installed in a bad location (above the climate controls)... I am going to try and put it on top of the dash to see if that might work. I have XM with the SureConnect FM modulator so I don't know if that might interfere. I'll keep trying and let you know....
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Post by macadamiaman on Mar 16, 2007 2:23:27 GMT -6
I am having the same exact problem. The map loads fine and the satellites for the GPS are being picked up, but the 'car' on the map does not move at all. I don't know if the GPS antenna is bad? Or if maybe it's installed in a bad location (above the climate controls)... I am going to try and put it on top of the dash to see if that might work. I have XM with the SureConnect FM modulator so I don't know if that might interfere. I'll keep trying and let you know.... I'm also using a wired-in FM modulator (scosche), but that shouldn't have anything to do with it... I put the antenna right on top of the dash, up front. It gets perfect reception. Update > I parked elsewhere in the University for a few hours. When I got into the car to go back to my dorm, the car was "stuck" in the place where I had parked for just a few hours, rather than the overnight space... GOOD TO KNOW there's someone else out there!!! Do you have OnStar in your 2001? Functioning?
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Post by Marc on Mar 16, 2007 7:47:03 GMT -6
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Post by thae2541 on Mar 16, 2007 8:10:05 GMT -6
I don't have OnStar. My car was an early build. I tried turning off the XM totally and have tried putting the antenna on the dash. The 'car is still stuck. I hope it is not somehow tied intot the Onstar but that doesn't really make sense because I read somewhere on this forum that a 1st Gen owner installed the Nav in his car (Someone posted they saw this). If only I could find out exactly how he did it, because as far as i know (correct me if I'm wrong) 1st Gen's did not have Onstar. Well, I'll keep trying until I find out what is wrong....
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Post by Marc on Mar 16, 2007 8:23:07 GMT -6
Thae2541.....Onstar was an option for the 1998 & 1999 model years.
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Post by macadamiaman on Mar 16, 2007 10:54:16 GMT -6
Thanks Marc. I looked through it but it doesn't seem to apply to my problem. Thae2541 - I also tried with the antenna in the dash, and unplugged my other Magellan GPS system (mounted on the windshield) because I thought it may have been interfering with the signal... of course that didn't work. Of course I'm jumping to conclusions here, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that somehow, the OnStar box has something to do with the processing/whatever (who knows) of the GPS signal, and it is tied in together with the GPS Nav System. OnStar is, after all, GPS based... the mod I was going to do to it was to use its GPS processor (which is a standard motorola unit) connected to a laptop for my GPS system. It has all the capability to do that, all you need to do is tap into it. Perhaps GM engineers picked up on this and figured it's cheaper this way, to have an already-present GPS processor take part of the workload off of the Nav Radio - and it might be faster that way, too. My car - effectively - does not have OnStar at the moment, since I took that box out. A week from now I'll be home and I'll scour the basement, I won't leave until I find that box!! I'll hook it up and report back. I'm thinking 95% chance this is it... I hope. I've seen this nav system installed in one classic Aurora, somehow, ('98 I think) and a late 90s Intrigue. I'm wondering if they happened to have OnStar, too. It's entirely possible. We should get in contact with them somehow.
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Post by thae2541 on Mar 16, 2007 19:51:31 GMT -6
Thanks Marc.. I didn't realize about Onstar.
Macadamiaman- If the OnStar thing works let me know. I'll keep searching to see if I can come up with anything and report back... This is irritating me. I really like the the NAv radio 100x better...
I wonder (for me) if it is possible to run the whole Onstar Setup (gps and onstar module) to the radio just to 'fool' the Nav radio into working. (That is if it needs Onstar to work correctly).
Anyway, I'll keep looking...
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Post by thae2541 on Mar 16, 2007 22:39:09 GMT -6
Found this... I don't believe it will work... not because of physical size, but because the 2nd-gen electronics operate through a data ribbon that connects everything to the central computer. The Classic does not have quite as sophisticated a system. check it out. this guy knows his stuff. www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t286078.html
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Post by macadamiaman on Mar 17, 2007 7:05:58 GMT -6
Very interesting.
My antenna is also disconnected from the second OnStar box. Maybe all it will take is to reconnect that... I only disconnected it to look at the connector a few months ago. I'll report back in a few days.
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Post by norbi on Mar 17, 2007 12:37:17 GMT -6
Connector in 2002 and 2001 are same and you can move radio from 2001 and put it in 2002 i know it because i have both years and both have nav radios but problem with arrow stuck i find it very weird but i think that radio also gets input from wheel speed sensors because for couple months i didnt have a GPS antenna at all and navigation was working good, once in a while wondered in a wrong direction but it worked so i assume that some 2001 dont have speed sensor connected to the radios.
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Post by macadamiaman on Mar 17, 2007 17:08:20 GMT -6
Connector in 2002 and 2001 are same and you can move radio from 2001 and put it in 2002 i know it because i have both years and both have nav radios but problem with arrow stuck i find it very weird but i think that radio also gets input from wheel speed sensors because for couple months i didnt have a GPS antenna at all and navigation was working good, once in a while wondered in a wrong direction but it worked so i assume that some 2001 dont have speed sensor connected to the radios. norbi, the reason why it worked for awhile is most likely because it was using the OnStar antenna, like was said in the past few posts... Your 2001 does have OnStar, right?
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Post by norbi on Mar 18, 2007 10:05:04 GMT -6
Yes i does have an antenna but it wasnt showing speed, altitude and all i had was out of range in GPS info, when i installed GPS antenna everything came up and it never gets lost or gets on wrong streets.
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Post by thae2541 on Mar 19, 2007 13:48:41 GMT -6
Macadamiaman: Have you found you Onstar box and reinstalled it?
I have a friend helping me out on this. We both think it might be the vehicle speed sensor in some way. Either through a direct connection in the radio wirng harness or through the Onstar somehow.
If anyone had the 2002 Nav radio wiring schematics I could find out for sure. As far as I can see, there is no VSS hooked into the radio (per the schematics) which brings the question up... How does the radio know what speed you are going for the Speed Compensated Volume?? Any help would be appreciated.
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Post by macadamiaman on Mar 19, 2007 14:55:25 GMT -6
I'm not going home (I'm at college) for a week. In the meantime, I'll try connecting the OnStar antenna to the 2nd box, which is also disconnected, but it's unlikely that'll work.
>> edit: I connected the antenna to the second box, the one without the Motorola GPS chips in it. No go. Looks like I'll need the box I've taken out of the car to get this to work... hopefully.
Precisely. The radio knows exactly what speed you're going for speed compensated volume - even without a satellite connection (thereby negating the possibility that it's using the GPS data for speed). SCV works perfectly... it's getting input from some speed sensor, somewhere...
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Post by Aurora40 on Mar 19, 2007 21:04:42 GMT -6
If anyone had the 2002 Nav radio wiring schematics I could find out for sure.
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Post by cherry2002 on Mar 21, 2007 5:57:44 GMT -6
This does sound like a VSS related problem. I think Aurora40 above me just posted the diagram for the 2002 radio harness. Check to see if you have that pin on your connector. If you don't we know what the problem is.
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Post by thae2541 on Mar 21, 2007 11:40:29 GMT -6
Hey thanks Aurora40 for the diagram. As far as I can see, the 2002 Nav radio has a Vehicle speed wire going direct to it. The 2001 does not have this wire. This weekend I am going to 'tear apart' the car to see what I can do to add the wire. I thought the speed compensated volume would have the VSS wired to the radio, but apparently from what I can figure the SCV comes from the body control module (BCM). Well, I'll find out this weekend and let you know...
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Post by norbi on Mar 21, 2007 17:23:23 GMT -6
Let me know about it. My wifes brother has a 2001 Aurora and he thinks about getting a factory NAV and since i hear that most of the 2001s have problems with nav (except for out 2001 probably late model) his will have it also since its made in 2000. If it would work then we would have 3 auroras with NAV radios.
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Post by cherry2002 on Mar 22, 2007 9:05:51 GMT -6
Theres a post over on the Bonneville Club from ddalder who just retrofitted a NAV unit to his Bonneville. He tapped the proper wire for VSS. Go see where he tapped the wire and then using the proper service manual find out what wire it is on the 2001.
You will then have to find a way to send that wire to the radio. My guess is you'll have to tap it directly to the radios connector, or solder it onto the PCB of the radio.
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Post by aurorabrain on Mar 22, 2007 9:24:20 GMT -6
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Post by macadamiaman on Mar 22, 2007 11:03:50 GMT -6
Theres a post over on the Bonneville Club from ddalder who just retrofitted a NAV unit to his Bonneville. He tapped the proper wire for VSS. Go see where he tapped the wire and then using the proper service manual find out what wire it is on the 2001. You will then have to find a way to send that wire to the radio. My guess is you'll have to tap it directly to the radios connector, or solder it onto the PCB of the radio. Yeah, it's here: www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70694&highlight=navigationVery interesting, I didn't know Delphi sold their radios as "aftermarket" parts without TheftLock! Very nice. Though it was $1,400+ - no thanks It would be quite a frustrating job, though! The guy is clearly a whiz - he even changed the LEDs inside the radio to red ones to match the interior. Are you 100% sure the VSS needs to be tapped? The only reason I wonder this, is because norbi's 2001 has navigation that works fine. I don't think they ever changed the connector in the 2001.... but everything is possible... The two 2001 Auroras here with navigation that doesn't work, also lack the OnStar's motorola GPS processor...
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Post by norbi on Mar 22, 2007 20:03:31 GMT -6
YEs both 2002 and 2001 have onstar my bros in law doesnt have onstar so i think we may have a problem there. Our 2001 is very late 2001 so thats why it may have it and work with it.
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Post by cherry2002 on Mar 23, 2007 5:39:15 GMT -6
Are you 100% sure the VSS needs to be tapped? The only reason I wonder this, is because norbi's 2001 has navigation that works fine. I don't think they ever changed the connector in the 2001.... but everything is possible... The two 2001 Auroras here with navigation that doesn't work, also lack the OnStar's motorola GPS processor... I don't know man, we're in unchartered territory here, you'll have to take the time to experiment and report back the results. Good luck!
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Post by thae2541 on Mar 24, 2007 0:57:06 GMT -6
I'm gonna mess around with it this weekend. So Far, I can see the 2002 definitely has the VSS wire going to the Nav radio. Hopefully, it works. If it not, I know that it might have to do with the OnStar, but I don't think so--Everything I've read says that it is not tied to Onstar... I'll know today when I tear the car apart today and then report back!
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Post by macadamiaman on Mar 24, 2007 12:13:11 GMT -6
I've been extremely sick over the weekend and unable to go home to fetch the OnStar box, but a week from now I'll be home and on vacation, so I'll report back then....
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Post by cherry2002 on Mar 24, 2007 20:14:42 GMT -6
Sounds good guys. Have faith, it will happen!
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