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Post by Aurora40 on Nov 19, 2005 18:28:43 GMT -6
You will need at a minimum: - one gallon of Dex-Cool
- distilled water if your Dex-Cool isn't pre-mixed
- container to drain coolant into
You will likely also need: - GM coolant system seal tablets
- phillips screwdriver
- door-puller style tool
- channel locks
- 19mm socket or box-wrench
The GM service manual suggests a drain and refill as the way to change coolant. Only if the drained fluid appears crusty or anything does it suggest a flush. The flush is via machine, you should not do a gardenhose flush of the system. The cooling system holds approximately 3 gallons, of which about 1 gallon will drain out. First, remove the undertray under the engine. There are 15 plastic pins holding it in place, with 2 being accessible from each wheelwell. You pull the center of the pin out without detaching it, and then the whole pin will pull out. You can use a door-puller tool for this, or a screwdriver or your fingers. Here is the tray removed from the car, and the tool I use to remove the pins: Some of the tools needed, and the pins from the undertray: Next, remove the radiator cap from the surge tank: Then, put a drain pan under the car. You will now loosen the drain plug for the radiator. It is on the end of the radiator on the driver's side. I remove the side grill panel to make access more easy. You will need a phillips screwdriver, and there is one screw that is removed. Then the panel will just pull out. There is a tab on the inboard side that holds it in place along with the screw. The drain plug has tabs for your finger, but it can be hard to turn initially. A 19mm socket or box wrench will fit over it. Just give it a light turn, it should not be hard to loosen. It is made of plastic, so be careful not to destroy it: Remove the drainplug, and let the coolant drain out. It will take several minutes for it to stop draining: Then replace the drainplug and tighten it only by hand. Now you have the option of refilling the system, or of adding cooling system seal tabs. I would recommend adding tablets, though the service manual says to avoid them unless specified to add or unless they are necessary. I feel they are a good thing, keep the system in good health, and prevent small leaks from porosity. So, I then remove the upper radiator hose from the engine. To do this you will remove the clamp with channel locks. Then twist the host until it breaks free, and pull it off the engine. I put two of the large tablets into the hose, and then reattach it. There will be a little bit of coolant still in the hose, so put some newspaper or paper towels under it. Otherwise it will leak onto your tranny and such and be hard to wipe up. Do NOT put the sealing tabs into your surge tank. They will not circulate from there. Be aware that GM sells a 6-pack of 10g tablets (P/N 3634621) and a 5-pack of 4g tablets (P/N 12378254). So the 5-pack of tablets is like two from the 6-pack. I would think about 20g of tablets should be more than fine. I actually put in less than that, though I've never had any leaks either. And remember that you didn't drain all the coolant or sealing tabs from before. I put in 8g of sealing tabs. Then, go ahead and fill up your system with 50/50 Dex-Cool/distilled water into the surge tank. You will likely only be able to put in about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon. You will need to run the car for a bit, and then add some again. I have noticed that running the car in the garage until the thermostat opened didn't make any difference. I needed to drive the car around the block in order to burp out all the air and add the remaining 1/2 gallon or so. Reinstall the radiator cap before you go for a spin, though! Then put the undertray back on, making sure to reinstall all the pins. If any are missing, go get some. They are cheap from your local dealer. I have a few on hand just in case. Put the front side grill back in if you removed it, and you are ready to rock.
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Post by BuccaneersFan on Nov 19, 2005 18:38:46 GMT -6
Great write up. Now can you do one for the Classic? (j/k) ;D
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Post by Marc on Nov 19, 2005 18:41:18 GMT -6
I guess I won't be able to flush the cooling system after all. Those flushing machines are expensive. Check out the price at the site noted below. www.asedeals.com/FlushUnit2.html
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Post by Wacko on Nov 19, 2005 19:50:17 GMT -6
Thanks for the great writeup. I am about to do mine as I don't know if it has ever been done. One question: when you return from your first drive to get the air to the top, how do you add additional fluid? Do you let the engine cool or can you open the surge tank cap?
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scottydl
Super Moderator
There's nothin' like an American V-8...
Posts: 7,373
Staff Member
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Post by scottydl on Nov 19, 2005 20:50:10 GMT -6
Stickied for quick reference. Great write-up indeed Aurora40, and I'll jump in with macman in hoping someone can illustrate this same procedure for the classic!
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Post by Aurora40 on Nov 19, 2005 22:10:42 GMT -6
Thanks for the great writeup. I am about to do mine as I don't know if it has ever been done. One question: when you return from your first drive to get the air to the top, how do you add additional fluid? Do you let the engine cool or can you open the surge tank cap? I usually let it cool as the level will go down more, and it will get sucked from the surge as the rest of the system cools. But if you just drive around the block, you could open it right away if you wanted. I also put extra in, I fill it about halfway between the "full" line and the top initially, and it'll still pull it down enough the low coolant light comes on. However you want to do it is ok, though. Just be aware that it isn't going to be totally full and you'll have to add coolant later. Don't drain/refill it and then leave on a huge road trip.
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Post by BuccaneersFan on Nov 21, 2005 9:35:14 GMT -6
Stickied for quick reference. Great write-up indeed Aurora40, and I'll jump in with macman in hoping someone can illustrate this same procedure for the classic! It wasn't macman it was bucsfan.
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Post by Aurora5000 on Nov 23, 2005 8:08:32 GMT -6
The only thing I could add to that is to do it every year.
Remember, Ethylene-glycol never wears out but the corrosion inhibitors which are equally important do, especially in an aluminum engine. Corrosion protection in an aluminum engine is vitally important. Aluminum exhibits a phenomenon called hot transport deposition corrosion...microscopic bits of aluminum break away from the hottest areas (exhaust port) into the coolant and precipitate out in the cold areas of the cooling system (radiator). Cracks result in the hot areas as stress risers develop. Cracked heads, coolant leaks into exhaust ports and failed head gaskets are common signs of a poorly maintained cooling system where the corrosion inhibitors have failed. The cold rolled core of the head gasket will corrode from the edges where it contacts the coolant if the inhibitors have failed.
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Post by Aurora40 on Nov 23, 2005 9:18:29 GMT -6
Hey Steve, how many tablets do you put in when you drain it? And are they the small ones or the biggies?
As an update, I had to top off the coolant level about 4 times. It takes forever for the system to burp. But ultimately I put back in just about exactly a gallon, which is just about exactly how much came out.
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Nov 23, 2005 11:30:56 GMT -6
I guess I won't be able to flush the cooling system after all. Those flushing machines are expensive. Check out the price at the site noted below. www.asedeals.com/FlushUnit2.htmlMarc, if you want to completely drain and refill, which is the proper way to do this, get the Prestone flush & fill kit (about 10 bucks or less). Install it and then you will remove all of the old coolant from the system. Just draining out a gallon of liquid is not going to cut it. Doing so is a waste of time as you are mixing old with new and you still have old, contaminated, weakened coolant in the system. Draining coolant "out" is not the same as draining the oil out of the engine. You have to get it all flushed out, then fill. The residue of water is easily removed with pressurized air, set at low psi, applied to the system with the cap on and the radiator drain opened.
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Post by Aurora40 on Nov 23, 2005 11:55:21 GMT -6
Marc, if you want to completely drain and refill, which is the proper way to do this, get the Prestone flush & fill kit (about 10 bucks or less). Install it and then you will remove all of the old coolant from the system. Just draining out a gallon of liquid is not going to cut it. Doing so is a waste of time as you are mixing old with new and you still have old, contaminated, weakened coolant in the system. Draining coolant "out" is not the same as draining the oil out of the engine. You have to get it all flushed out, then fill. The residue of water is easily removed with pressurized air, set at low psi, applied to the system with the cap on and the radiator drain opened. Hmm, that's interesting given that this is the procedure listed in the GM Service Manual for this car. It is also the procedure recommended by a GM Powertrain engineer who used to frequent cadillacforums. You are welcome to change your coolant any way you want. But I wouldn't say doing it the appropriate way is a waste of time. Once you have 3 gallons of prestone flush crap and hose water in your system, how do you plan on removing that, when only 1 gallon will drain out? You really think pressurized air shot at the fill cap will push out the other two gallons? Have you ever tried it to be sure before suggesting other people put a flush solution in their car that they may not be able to remove? The idea that mixing old with new means it's a waste of time is ridiculous. Only 8 of 12+ quarts of my oil drains out of the Corvette. Does this mean oil changes are a waste of time and I shouldn't bother? What about tranny drains on most GM cars, are they a waste if you don't pull the torque convertor?
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Nov 23, 2005 12:15:38 GMT -6
If you have done this on dozens of cars, as some of us have, you would know what you've stated is completely silly! Obviously, if you have ever flushed a cooling system, you would know that you can completely flush the old out, completely flush out the radiator cleaner, and refill with new coolant. That's why Prestone makes the kit, so you can do the job right and complete. That's also why you also flush a transmission as well as the radiator. You're not following the directions of GM or Prestone in doing a partial job as you are advocating here. The GM Service Manual does not call for just draining out a gallon of coolant. The owners manual might, but not the service manual. This is one of the most basic of all car maintenance procedures Bob and what you have listed above would get you reprimanded by your Service Advisor and laughed at by the experienced techs. I'm saying all of this so that people here don't go and waste their money and think they got the job done, when in all reality they didn't. :-) As for changing the oil in your Vette and leaving a few old quarts in, well, the old oil will contaminate the new and cut its effectiveness down. You need to get all of the old oil out, or yes, your oil change is essentially ruined.
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Post by Aurora40 on Nov 23, 2005 12:27:07 GMT -6
You're not following the directions of GM or Prestone in doing a partial job as you are advocating here. The GM Service Manual does not call for just draining out a gallon of coolant. The owners manual might, but not the service manual. I would love to see the 2002 Oldsmobile Aurora GM Service Manual you own that contradicts the one I own. And if you have a scanner, maybe you can scan up the pages of the 1990 Corvette Service Manual or LT5 supplement, as yours also must differ from mine... While the threat of being laughed at by techs or by you (or by, God forbid, the ever-knowing Service Advisors!) is quite intimidating, I think I'll still stick to what I know about cars I actually own and maintain.
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Post by Aurora40 on Nov 23, 2005 19:49:50 GMT -6
Hey, it's your car and you have every right to perform the maintenance in the way you want to. Just don't let the warranty administrator know what your doing, at least not until after you have gone out of warranty. :-) However, the Professional GM Techs don't do it your way - thankfully. Have a great Thanksgiving. :-) I don't know what you are trying to accomplish, other than to continue your habit of berating folks who don't share your opinion. However, Dex-Cool change intervals on the Aurora are 5 years or 150,000 miles. My warranty is 5 years or 60,000 miles. So I fail to see why my warranty has anything to do with this discussion. And I find it hard to believe a GM tech would dismiss the service manual in favor of Prestone's recommendations on how to service generic cars. You've made your opinion known, anyone who feels your opinion has value is free to take your advice. If you just want to continue tossing insults at me, start your own how-to on how to be a smartmouth.
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Post by Custom88 on Nov 23, 2005 21:23:14 GMT -6
It's a little warm in here. Great write-up for the do it yourselfer! I don't know if I'd attempt this job myself though. Where do you dispose of the used coolant at? (any chain stores that do it. I'm not familar with any places local to me that do it.) EDIT: I didn't see this post. It answers my question about coolant disposal aurorah.proboards47.com/index.cgi?board=V8&action=display&thread=1131381835&page=1
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Post by Aurora40 on Nov 24, 2005 8:28:11 GMT -6
It's a little warm in here. Great write-up for the do it yourselfer! I don't know if I'd attempt this job myself though. Where do you dispose of the used coolant at? (any chain stores that do it. I'm not familar with any places local to me that do it.) EDIT: I didn't see this post. It answers my question about coolant disposal aurorah.proboards47.com/index.cgi?board=V8&action=display&thread=1131381835&page=1Dan, it's very easy to do. Pulling off the lower engine tray is probably the hardest part, and that's pretty easy. Plus you have to pull it to get to most things under the front, so it's good to be familiar with it. It's a very non-messy procedure, the coolant drain is well located (except for a wire loom that runs under it, but it can be moved) so it drains straight down. On most of the cars I've done, it drains mostly down, but some will catch on some body piece and run off on the other side of the car or something, making a mess. It will also give you some insight to the car. The coolant should be clear and clean, and look just like new coolant. It's an aluminum motor, so there shouldn't be any scale or rust or other crud in it. If there is, you might have other problems, and as I said earlier you should then have the system flushed via machine. Like Steve mentioned, you can do this more often since the system doesn't drain very well. I think I will start doing this annually especially since it's so easy to do. You can try calling local shops to see if they'll take coolant. Sometimes parts stores will take it, places like Advance Auto, Auto Zone, etc.
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Post by Aurora5000 on Nov 24, 2005 12:41:07 GMT -6
I agree with Bob. As I stated from a previous post you are REFRESHING the dex cool. My service manual says the same Bob. Remember your thermostat??? Ethylene-glycol never wears out but the corrosion inhibitors which are equally important do, especially in an aluminum engine. Corrosion protection in an aluminum engine is vitally important.
Bob, some people just never get it.
PS, I use 2 of the Golden tubes of Bars from Walmart each time.
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Post by MBowen574 on Nov 28, 2005 1:01:48 GMT -6
Even "flushing" a system, as I recently did in the Galant (as recommended by its Mitsubishi service manual) only removes about 1/2 of the 7.4(!) quarts of regular anti-freeze coolant mixture from the system, and that's with the garden hose blasting water through the system. I couldn't believe that little came out. It was very dirty, too...
Refreshed (the word used a couple of times here and in my Galant service manual) coolant is a good thing!
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Post by Wacko on Dec 10, 2005 12:10:32 GMT -6
Aurora40, the service manual also talks about removing the surge tank on a drain/fill service. It says to remove it, empty it clean inside and out. Does this contain an insignificant volume of old coolant, not enough to make this step worthwhile? I see that you omit this step.
Also, outside of online vendors and dealers, are there popular stores that sell the coolant tabs and Dex-Cool.
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Post by Aurora40 on Dec 10, 2005 15:17:12 GMT -6
The surge tank drained out pretty close to completely. It didn't have any crud at the bottom, so I didn't take it out. It seems like it would be a bit of a pain to remove. It's not like it just has one hose like a non-pressurized overflow tank. If there had been much left, I'd probably try to suction it out before removing that thing. If it were cruddy, though, then you'd probably want to take it out and clean it (and think about flushing the whole system)
You can buy Bar's Leak golden powder instead. They make the GM coolant system tablets. I believe it comes in tube form. Just don't buy any of their aluminum colored stuff. They make a bunch of other sealant things that you don't want to put in your car. That's what Aurora5000 talks about using in the post prior to yours.
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Post by Wacko on Dec 10, 2005 17:19:47 GMT -6
Ah, I overlooked Aurora5000's post. Thanks for the feedback. Walmart, huh? I believe they stock the Havoline Coolant too. Looks like that's where I'm headed tonight. I ordered a bunch of cooling system related stuff from VanDevere Oldmobile, water pump, thermostat, etc. Hehe, I should be shopping for others for the holidays.
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Post by Wacko on Dec 11, 2005 19:37:13 GMT -6
Anyone ever thought of 'flushing' the coolant system with air? Like say with a wet vac or flipped around to blow out the coolant?
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Post by Aurora5000 on Dec 20, 2005 12:49:05 GMT -6
You might be able to do that but the thermostat would be a problem.
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Post by Wacko on Dec 20, 2005 13:25:21 GMT -6
True. In my case I was replacing the thermostat anyway. I was able to get 8 out of the 13 quart capacity from my cooling system without using any external means like air pressure. I didn't have an opportunity to try this. I wish I had.
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tahoesport
Aurora Watcher
YOU CANT BEAT WHAT YOU CANT CATCH!
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Post by tahoesport on Dec 20, 2005 19:12:07 GMT -6
Sounds like alot of different chefs in the kitchen..hopefully this can clear it up for some of you... Drain, flush and refill the cooling system (or every 60 months since the last cooling system service, whichever occurs first). Refer to Draining and Filling Cooling System in Engine Cooling. For information on the proper coolant to use, refer to Fluid and Lubricant Recommendations . Inspect hoses. Clean radiator, condenser, pressure cap and neck. If there is a loss of coolant, refer to Loss of Coolant in Engine Cooling. Notice: Do not add cold water to the cooling system with the engine at or above operating temperature. Adding cold water causes rapid cooling, resulting in possible engine damage. NOTICE: When adding coolant, it is important that you use GM Goodwrench DEX-COOL® or HAVOLINE® DEX-COOL® coolant. If Coolant other than DEX-COOL® or HAVOLINE® DEX-COOL® is added to the system the engine coolant will require change sooner; at 50 000 km (30,000 mi) or 24 months. Notice: Do not use a solution stronger than 70 percent antifreeze. Pure antifreeze can freeze at -22°C (-8°F). Notice: This engine uses DEX-COOL® and GM coolant supplement (sealant) P/N 3634621 specifically designed for use in aluminum engines. Failure to use the engine coolant supplement (sealant) and the approved coolant antifreeze could result in major engine damage. When refilling the cooling system, add three pellets of the engine coolant supplement sealant GM P/N 3634621 to the lower radiator hose Clean the cap. Pressure test the cap. If necessary, replace the cap. Clean the surge tank filler neck. Inspect the filler neck. Remove the front air deflector. Refer to Air Deflector Replacement - Front in Body Front End. Open the radiator drain at the bottom of the radiator. Completely drain the cooling system. If the coolant is dirty, or if there are deposits in the radiator, flush the cooling system before refilling. Refer to Flushing . Remove the surge tank. Refer to Surge Tank Replacement . Clean the outside of the surge tank. Pour out any fluid. Thoroughly clean the inside of the surge tank using soap and water. Thoroughly flush the surge tank with clean water and drain. Install the surge tank. Refer to Surge Tank Replacement . Close the radiator drain. Install the front air deflector. hope this helps with unanswered questions..if anyone needs further info let me know..
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Post by cadboy1 on Oct 10, 2009 10:24:45 GMT -6
The pics wont load
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Post by cadboy1 on Oct 10, 2009 16:57:13 GMT -6
I had a hole in the cover right below the drain cock. I pulled it and let it drain while I did other stuff like the hoses and belts and then it needed about 1.5 gallons.
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Post by Aurora40 on Oct 18, 2010 20:30:41 GMT -6
The pics wont load fixed. A PM probably would have fixed it a year ago...
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Post by adfdsfdwefsfd on Mar 6, 2011 18:19:22 GMT -6
I just got Prestone flush & fill kit at Walmart for $3.5. Gonna flush the radiator when it warms up (I cant believe it starts to snow again...) On classic, how can I access the radiator cap & radiator drain plug. I cant see the radiator without removing anything. And I ordered a radiator cap from rockauto, but it is actually a cap for the reservoir. So is there a separated radiator cap on classic or not? I am not sure what is different on a classic
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Post by tipsymcstager on Mar 6, 2011 21:41:27 GMT -6
I just got Prestone flush & fill kit at Walmart for $3.5. Gonna flush the radiator when it warms up (I cant believe it starts to snow again...) On classic, how can I access the radiator cap & radiator drain plug. I cant see the radiator without removing anything. And I ordered a radiator cap from rockauto, but it is actually a cap for the reservoir. So is there a separated radiator cap on classic or not? I am not sure what is different on a classic the cap on the expansion tank is all you get (it is the "radiator cap") the pecock in on the bottom of the radiator, drivers side. it's just a plastic wing nut so be gentle!
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