Adjusting front hood gap (classics)

[scottydl]

From Aurora 40's post in topic 1106335905...

Aurora40 said:

Also, you can adjust that gap in the hood for free. I don't know why the classics seem to have that issue, but you can minimize it. I've seen posts on Edmunds but can't recall the specifics (as I don't have a classic). I believe you move the bumper, though, not the hood.

Does anyone know how to do this?

[Superdemon]

I would also really like to know how to fix that. I have always thought that gap was annoying but I didn't think there was anything I could do about it.


Mike

[JimW]

Maybe the latch designer on the Classic can lend some insights, he is a member here

[scottydl]

Hey that's right... that is a pretty strange coincidence, actually. OldsMike, are you reading this?

Edit: I sent him a PM, asking that he check this topic

[Superdemon]

JimW said:

Maybe the latch designer on the Classic can lend some insights, he is a member here

It doesn't really seem like a latch problem though. Seems more like a problem with the plastic part of the bumper sagging.


Mike

[Aurora40]

Yeah, I don't think the hood has to move, but I could be wrong. The gap isn't so much a vertical one is it? It seems like it's more that the bumper is out in front a bit. If you moved the hood, the lights and stuff would have to move too.

I just did a quick search on Edmunds for "hood" and "gap" with no luck. I thought that's where I read it, though...

In this picture, I think it may be shadow that makes it seem to rise up more, but I *think* it's more that the bumper is forward. Look at the bumper and the lights, it doesn't even surround them well, you can see a big forwards gap there too:
www.bigmike316.com/images/new-car2.jpg

[OldsMike]

scottydl said:

Hey that's right... that is a pretty strange coincidence, actually. OldsMike, are you reading this?

Edit: I sent him a PM, asking that he check this topic

Hey,

I wasn't reading it, but I am now!

Just to be accurate, I wasn't the latch designer. Some guys over at Fisher Guide in Troy, MI have to take credit for that. I was the "Hood Release Cable" Engineer, not to be confused with "The Cable Guy".... I had to work with the Latch Engineers at Fisher since my part mated to theirs. Now, on to the question....

Most latches are not adjustable, looking at my 99, however, a small amount of adjustment could possibly be made in the catch (upper loop) attached to the hood. I can't, in good faith, recommend modifying the catch position. Most latches have a "Primary" latch and a "Secondary" latch. The secondary is a safety feature to prevent the hood from flying open in the inadvertent case that the primary latch was not engaged. There is a relationship between the catch, the hood bumpers and the trim lines (hood front, hood sides, front fascia, fenders, etc.) Adjustment of the hood bumpers and of the catch will only move the hood up (adding shims to the backside of the catch). Adjustment of the bumpers only would move the hood up or down (putting the hood in increasing tension). In any case, you would want the hood to be perfectly aligned with the fenders. The front fascia could possibly be drooping. In this case, I wouldn't try to correct the condition by adjusting the hood catch or the bumpers. The front fascia may need some support which may not be easy but not impossible. I have noticed a sizeable hood gap on almost all 1st gen Auroras on the space between the headlights. If everything was fitting properly, one way to improve the gap would be to weld the front edge of the hood and grind the weld to size then prep and paint the hood. Aluminum isn't easy to weld but not impossible.

What would I do? Assuming everything was fitting right, I wouldn't change anything. Sorry for the long answer.

[JimW]

img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/wallacej/DSC03614.jpg

Here is a similar angle of my car, I do have a generous gap around the headlights, but the hood/bumper looks correct.

[OldsMike]

Aurora40 said:

In this picture, I think it may be shadow that makes it seem to rise up more, but I *think* it's more that the bumper is forward. Look at the bumper and the lights, it doesn't even surround them well, you can see a big forwards gap there too:

Looking at your car, is the upper catch tight? Is the lower latch assembly tight? Could you post some pictures of the upper and lower?

[stevensolds]

yeah mine has a bit of a gap too. aint removing the bumper though....i think its because a shopping cart or something though...

not sure how much u can see here i need to take some better pics www.sitaliano.com/auroraside.jpg

[Superdemon]

OldsMike said:

Looking at your car, is the upper catch tight? Is the lower latch assembly tight? Could you post some pictures of the upper and lower?

That is my car in the picture and the hood was tight when the picture was taken. I don't know if there was a minor accident or what but it seems like a one inch gap is a little much.


Mike

[stevensolds]

I know my car was in a fender bender....the paint is waaay to off-color and faded on the bumpers and the foam is broken on the inside front fender if you look under the hood. Probably a parking lot job or something

[Aurora40]

JimW said:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/wallacej/DSC03614.jpg

Here is a similar angle of my car, I do have a generous gap around the headlights, but the hood/bumper looks correct.

Hey Jim, to me it still looks like the bumper is forward. The vertical gap is nice and tight, the hood is right on the bumper. But the part of the bumper that flows into the hood is forwards of the hood edge by a noticeable bit, at least it looks that way in the picture.

OldsMan, isn't the hood latch secured to the frame, not the bumper? Why would moving the bumper in mess with hood alignment or the latch? The bumper is a collision piece, and can move in and out. It would seem a bad idea to attach the hood latch to this.

I think for vertical gaps, if the hood lines up with the fenders, you can't do too much. But that front-to-back mismatch I believe can be adjusted. I could be wrong, though, and I don't have a classic.

[kobalt]

JimW said:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/wallacej/DSC03614.jpg

Here is a similar angle of my car, I do have a generous gap around the headlights, but the hood/bumper looks correct.

I too think that the bumper cover looks a bit forward. Perhaps it is the angle of the shot. How does the bumper match the quarter panel at the wheelwell? Do you have a pic?

[JimW]

I go freeze my butt of at lunch and take a picture, I brought my camera to work, I will post tonight.

I'll get multiangles

*edit* Ok i got pics, but I dont have my USB line at work, so I will post tonight, besides the regular air gaps, it looks pretty normal.

Some close up comparo pics will really help.

[Letitroll98]

Aurora40 said:

Hey Jim, to me it still looks like the bumper is forward. The vertical gap is nice and tight, the hood is right on the bumper. But the part of the bumper that flows into the hood is forwards of the hood edge by a noticeable bit.

Why would moving the bumper in mess with hood alignment or the latch?

Last question 1st here 40, I believe Mike was saying that the bumper would be mis-aligned, possibly drouping, if you move the bumper to match the hood. It was moving the hood that would mis-align the 2ndary latch.

1st question and original post, I too have wondered why this gap was designed in the car. All classics have it, including mine whose hood is perfectly aligned, no other gaps anywhere. It simply looks as if someone made a huge mistake and hoped no one would notice.

Mike, do you have any insight as to why the hood doesn't line up with the bumper on classics? I've never heard a satisfactory answer here. It was something that almost had me pass on an Aurora purchase.



Ok smarty pants, here's my "gap tooth" beauty.

[Aurora40]

Letitroll98 said:

Last question 1st here 40, I believe Mike was saying that the bumper would be mis-aligned, possibly drouping, if you move the bumper to match the hood. It was moving the hood that would mis-align the 2ndary latch.

You're right. I went back and re-read it. I think because he talked about the hood bumpers, I got all confused...

As to your second question, perhaps they did it on purpose so that after your first fender bender it would push the bumper back and everything would line up and look nice. At first you'd be all upset and mad that you just messed up your great new car. But then you'd look at the front and think "man, that looks even better than it used to!" and you'd fall in love with your amazing, self-healing car all over again!

I am glad they addressed this weird issue in the 2nd gen:

[stevensolds]

it could have something to do with fender benders too.....im sure everyone here knows that if you open your hood and stick your head all the way in and look where the bumper is, you will see yellow "smart" foam. that stuff is designed to retract the bumper if its hit under 10mph. front and back has it. that could be why there is a gap, so it can "give" if there ever comes a time...

[JimW]

Here is my hood gap, taken a few days ago






Looking like a true daily beater

[Aurora40]

That list pict of Jim's shows what I think is the more common "gap". It's not a vertical gap, it's more that the bumper needs to go back. In your front-on shots the gap looks fine, I mean there has to be some gap. But that last one it looks like the bumper needs to be pushed back about a 1/2" or so for it to line up with the hood properly.

[stevensolds]

Wow jim thats one dirty Rora. Gotta get to work somehow or another You take some great pics with that camera, damn. You can see the gap very clearly in that last one

[JimW]

Ya I washed it last night, it looks much better now. ;D Now that we can enjoyed more moderate -2C weather

As for the horizontal gap, I always thought it was a part of the natural flow of the car. There isnt really a whole lot of play when I move the bumper. I suppose its something I can look into a little more.

Maybe we can get more angled shots like my last one to compare?

[Letitroll98]

This is the gap I meant, the front to back one.. It's the normal gap on all classics, nothing needs adjusted. There appears to be no reason why it's there. It would be perfectly feasable to design the hood to line up with the bumper, it's done on all other grilless cars, including Gen II's. My question to anyone who knows is why is it there, not how do you fix it.

[stevensolds]

WOW Letitroll your aurora looks so clean in that pic up top. It looks like it is waxed so much that it is a mirror

Nice!!!

[Custom88]

The problem is not fixed on the second generation of Auroras. Mine has that same gap on it and it's a 2001.

[stevensolds]

i found this to be quite interesting. the 1997 aurora pace car didnt have that gap...hmm. look here (its not big, erw, hold your horses )

www.sitaliano.com/season97.jpg

that is one nice aurora

[Aurora40]

Custom88 said:

The problem is not fixed on the second generation of Auroras. Mine has that same gap on it and it's a 2001.

Heheh! That ain't right! I'll go snap a side shot of mine, it's just perfect...

[Zipzag]

OK guys its the push retainers there made of plastic and dont hold well after time , letting the Facia to drop
the top and bottom retainers , trust me those covers are heavy, and the latch is not on the frame or the bumper its on the upper tie bar or rad support , and yes you can drop it more but check the hood adjuster to make sure you keep them aligned with the fenders{level} in the picture of the white car the Pass side of the hood is not sitting right or its just the pic, shadow?