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Post by aurorinz on Jun 17, 2005 14:35:38 GMT -6
Has anyone ever blocked off the coolant passage to the TB? I've been wanting to do this mod but haven't found anyone that has done it or any resources for doing it. Any help is appreciated as always
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 17, 2005 19:10:19 GMT -6
What does it do?
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Post by erw38 on Jun 17, 2005 19:30:44 GMT -6
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Post by Custom88 on Jun 17, 2005 19:31:47 GMT -6
I haven't heard of anyone with a Northstar doing this, but I've heard of several 3800 owners doing this. By blocking off the coolant to the throttle body it slightly decreases the intake air temperature. The reason why it is heated in the first place is for better starting in the winter time, and for emissions purposes. It creates very little gain apparently.
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Post by SupaStealth on Jun 20, 2005 21:08:59 GMT -6
Here is a more recent picture of it, you can see that the hose that comes out of the waterpump housing goes to the coolant resevoir instead of going to the throttle body, that's basically all there is to it, and from that, there isn't any more hot coolant going through there to heat up the air. as for a difference, i'm not really sure, i have a misfire that i can't get rid of so it's hard to tell if there are any performance gains, it didn't hurt though.
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Post by aurorinz on Jun 21, 2005 8:00:18 GMT -6
Well down here in texas we don't have emissions testing so i'm not worried a single bit about that. i was reading the other thread and i doubt it will give 5-10 hp but in conjunction with all other things considered it wouldn't hurt. I've noticed the other day when i was cleaning out my filter that the boxs was hot on the inside and i have it wrapped up in reflectix all the way. So my train of thought led me to believe that the TB heater line is conducting heat through the TB (cause it gets really hot after running it for a while)to the maf sensor (which i think reads some of the absorbed heat) and finally to the rest of the air hose to the filter box and if i can cut off that flow to the TB then it would help the reflctix do it's job. I'm also going to be coming up with a ram/cold air type mod when i get my next paycheck this friday (gonna be doing an oil change so i'll be under the car anyways). So supa that's a great pic you have there but I don't see how you blocked off the coolant flow to the TB. maybe i'm blind but it looks like it's stock . Could you maybe point it out or something and maybe perhaps tell me what you used to do it?
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Post by erw38 on Jun 21, 2005 11:10:37 GMT -6
Well down here in texas we don't have emissions testing I don't know about you, but I am in Texas and I have to do emissions testing every year.
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 21, 2005 23:21:41 GMT -6
Anyone who lives in wide open areas like SD i dont think they have emissions testing. If i didnt have emissions here, I would have ripped my Cat off the day i got the car. Probably gain back 5 or 10 horses with that crap removed.
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Post by 95mushroom on Jun 22, 2005 0:10:47 GMT -6
Anyone who lives in wide open areas like SD i dont think they have emissions testing. If i didnt have emissions here, I would have ripped my Cat off the day i got the car. Probably gain back 5 or 10 horses with that crap removed. FL doesn't have testing either. Idealy, a cat is not suppose to remove power, just over the years it gets dirty and clogged. That's where the power gain would come from... Our 95's are lucky too because you cat's are not connected to the pcm in anyway. I torn if to get a Magnaflow cat or not. It would free up 100bux...
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Post by aurorinz on Jun 22, 2005 7:55:18 GMT -6
So supa are you gonna spill the beans on this mod? I was looking really hard at this pic you posted and i think i see what you did to the black hose coming from the coolant tank with the pressure cap on it. but i was looking to that on metal hose that has like wire mesh on it. that's the one i want to get rid of, has anyone done that?
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Post by SupaStealth on Jun 22, 2005 12:39:23 GMT -6
sorry, i've been busy workin' i found a picture when i first did this mod and it's a little easier to see.
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Post by aurorinz on Jun 23, 2005 13:36:52 GMT -6
kool beans supa thanks. I thought the other metal hose was the coolant line (the one with the silver mesh), but i guess it is just the EGR hose that goes to the TB. I'm gonna try and find a way to make that a lil bit cleaner for inspections they don't like the sight of loose hoses. I'll give everybody the results from the butt dyno since my car is in good working order. (knocks on wood)
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Post by Snoman002 on Jun 23, 2005 23:03:12 GMT -6
If you think it will make that big of a difference run a hose from the washer fluid resivoir (if you can) through the coolant passages in the TB, that way you will actually cool the TB. It would require some rigging to make it work but the washer fluid will act as a heat sink for the TB and cool it.
You would need: Hose adapters washer pump wire and a switch.
With a switch you could turn the pump on when you wanted it, that will give you lower temps as the fluid isn't cooling the TB all the time,but will take a couple of minutes for the TB to cool. You could also throw some ice in the washer resivior before you head out too, that way the washer fluid will be that much cooler.
I'm assuming that the coolant passages in the TB are totally seperate from the coolant in the motor, it is it's own little system (I.E. there is an in and an out to the coolant system on the TB).
The question that arises is, how much difference do you think that little bit of metal will make. Even if you lower the temps of the air 20 degrees (which is alot) I would expect only about a 3-4 hp improvement.
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Post by kobalt on Jun 27, 2005 14:29:59 GMT -6
TB coolant bypass is one of those questionable mods like the UDP - not sure if the ends justify the means IMO.
Supa, I really like your intake - is that the one from ebay? How does it perform? Did you make the heatshield yourself? Sorry for off topic BTW.
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Post by aurorinz on Jun 27, 2005 17:22:18 GMT -6
you know actually, snoman you might be on to something.you idea sounds good but technically it's a lot more work than it's worth. sounds like having a air to water intercooler putting ice in the resevoir. but i now have this idea now just hear me out, (not actualy gonna do it but if i was rich and bored i might) but what if the line that plumbed into the Throttle body that was attached to the coolant resevoir was fitted to a C02 tank. Then when you open up the tank, say at the track, it would really cool down the TB and the air coming into the engine, i think a lot more than ice water would. but yeah i'm sure that alone is worth at least 3hp, which in my opinion is better than 0hp. Oh and about that UDP, Kobalt I've known quite a bit of z24 owners to be quite happy with the UDP's they have bought. I've read a link to a website that discredits the UDP and I think their testing method is flawed severely. They state that without running a belt on the accessory pulleys they gained like 1hp and that with a belt with an underdriven pulley they would expect less than that so they did'nt bother to test a UDP at all. What they didn't take into account was that the alternator needs to be running to efficiently charge the electrical system and thus ignition. So unless they would have actually done the test the right way and fab'd up a UDP then they might have seen a 2hp increase lol. OK so back on topic now I was looking at that line that Supa cut and bolted and i think he only did half the job of elimintaing the colant from the TB, cause I believe as well that the TB has an inlet and an outlet, and that the line supa cut was just an outlet to feed back into the coolant resevoir. SO what needs to be done now is cut off the inlet. SO here's my take on the situation: I'm sure any of you who have done a TB bypass on a 2.8 or 3.1 60*v6 have put a hose that connects the 2 lines together (inlet & outlet) so that the TB is independent of the whole system, well at least i did anyways. So if that one metal line that connects to the TB (with the silver mesh around it) that leads from where i believe the thermostat to be then this would be the source of the hot coolant (which guessing from my temp guage reaches 200 F* sometimes 220*). So therefore the hose that supa clipped must be connected somehow to that inlet to keep the flow running back to the coolant tank. COrrect me if i'm wrong anyone have any more thoughts on this?
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Post by Snoman002 on Jun 27, 2005 22:42:34 GMT -6
I was wondering what UDP was, now I know.
Underderive pullies are one of the best bang for your buck mods you can do. If Mach performance makes a set for the Aurora get those as I have heard that they make the best.
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 28, 2005 11:12:43 GMT -6
I dont think they have a set for the Aurora, or I would have gotten them long ago. i think with the bonnes they make a big difference for so little cash.
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Post by 95mushroom on Jun 28, 2005 12:22:35 GMT -6
I thought UDPs were used for belt driven superchargers to get more boost? I really don't see how adding UDP to accessories will give any performance gains. It would actually take the engine the more effort to turn a smaller pulley then a larger one, right?
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Post by SupaStealth on Jun 28, 2005 16:34:46 GMT -6
they do make smaller pully's for superchargers to increase boost, but the underdrive pullies, they usually come with 2 pullies, the crankshaft pully which i believe is smaller than stock so it doesn't have to do as much work to turn the accesories, all of them, and then comes with a larger than stock pully for the alternator which makes that turn even slower.
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Post by Snoman002 on Jun 28, 2005 20:00:51 GMT -6
The ones I have seen come with a smaller crank pully to slow everything down and reduce the HP lost but they come with a smaller alt pully so the alt will still charge at low RPM's.
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Post by SupaStealth on Jun 29, 2005 6:23:12 GMT -6
gotcha, how much were they and can you still order them.
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Jun 29, 2005 20:27:56 GMT -6
Oh man. Who is gonna pull the engine to put all of those on???
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Post by SupaStealth on Jun 30, 2005 16:53:05 GMT -6
Oh man. Who is gonna pull the engine to put all of those on??? ya only have to do two of them, and ya probably don't have to pull the engine, just remove the wheel and inner fender
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Jul 17, 2005 20:15:44 GMT -6
Sounds like messing with something that was designed to be that way.
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Post by BuccaneersFan on Jul 18, 2005 13:29:55 GMT -6
you know actually, snoman you might be on to something.you idea sounds good but technically it's a lot more work than it's worth. sounds like having a air to water intercooler putting ice in the resevoir. but i now have this idea now just hear me out, (not actualy gonna do it but if i was rich and bored i might) but what if the line that plumbed into the Throttle body that was attached to the coolant resevoir was fitted to a C02 tank. Then when you open up the tank, say at the track, it would really cool down the TB and the air coming into the engine, i think a lot more than ice water would. but yeah i'm sure that alone is worth at least 3hp, which in my opinion is better than 0hp. You can buy a C02 cooled intake system, I've seen it one on TV before, but I can't remember what it's called. You might try searching the web.
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