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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 11:09:08 GMT -6
Has anyone ever used this before? My mother operates a fuel store and they have got "turbo Blue" racing fuel. The other day I was at a pump and just grabbed a handle and ended up putting 30 bucks worth of racing fuel into the ole girl, that would be right around 6 gallons of gas. I realized my mistake and finished with premium, so now im running a mix of 100/92. Can this have a bad affect on the motor. It might be a plasebo affect, but it seems like the engine is more responsive, acceleration is noticably better, and all in all it just seems to run/idle better.
I might get some 0-60 videos up soon with the racing fuel mixture and than I can time it to compare to some of my other vids. I would just like everybodys $.02 on this one, because if it doesnt have any downfalls I might run a couple gallons through it once a month, just to do it. ;D
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Post by robaurora01 on Jan 18, 2009 12:53:10 GMT -6
I say plasebo effect
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Post by 71corvette454 on Jan 18, 2009 13:26:10 GMT -6
If I understood you well: you now have a bit of 100 octane fuel instead of 92, which you use usually. If that's right I'm a bit surprised, because it looks like here - in Poland - we have one thing that is better than in the USA. Our fuel is at least 95 octane - I always use 100 octane (there is also 98 available).
And what I say is that this is NOT a plasebo effect!!! Your car should be pretty much faster on a better fuel. There was an experiment done by Top Gear: they took a Koenigsegg. Firstly they measured the power on normal fuel and then on 100 octane. And on 100 octane it had about 10-20% more power!!! I might be wrong with the numbers, because it was a long time ago, but definitely it was much faster on better fuel.
You feel it especially when your car is able to run on LPG (my old car had LPG installation). When you switch from LPG to petrol while accelerating you really feel the kick on your back.
So my advice is: keep buying the 100 octane, because your car is faster, does more mpg and it should be good for your engine as well (that's what's happening with my car and what said Jacek Chojnacki - polish race driver, who live near me and is a good mechanic).
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Post by Speed Neon on Jan 18, 2009 13:49:59 GMT -6
turbo blue allows for full spark advance and no knock. ur classic is loving it, and if its cold outside its really giving you all your going to get.
the higher the octane rating the faster your classic.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jan 18, 2009 15:35:02 GMT -6
If I understood you well: you now have a bit of 100 octane fuel instead of 92, which you use usually. If that's right I'm a bit surprised, because it looks like here - in Poland - we have one thing that is better than in the USA. Our fuel is at least 95 octane - I always use 100 octane (there is also 98 available). I suspect you, like most of Europe, have octane rated by the RON (research octane). In the US it is the average of RON and MON. So our 93 octane is closer to your 98 octane. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 18:12:02 GMT -6
So I should continue to run it, it wont burn to hot, its a relatively safe product? I tihnk I might conbtinue its use then, but at near 5.00 a gallon its gonna be damn near impossible to fill er up on it.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Jan 18, 2009 19:05:21 GMT -6
I am glad some other people think Auroras run better with higher octane. I got a lot of crap on another thread saying I thought it ran better with 94 octane. I really can tell a difference.  I bet that 100 octane really makes a difference. |
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Post by Marc on Jan 18, 2009 19:40:12 GMT -6
I don't know about regular vs. premium in the Classic, I've never driven one, but I do know that in the 2nd gen 4.0, there's a big difference in power between 87 & 93. With 87, the PCM sets the spark very far back, giving a big drop in HP. I felt this when I drove a 2001 4.0 demo that I knew was running on 87. I have always used 93 or 94 in my own 2001 4.0, which feels much better than that demo.
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Post by 71corvette454 on Jan 19, 2009 12:05:55 GMT -6
I suspect you, like most of Europe, have octane rated by the RON (research octane). In the US it is the average of RON and MON. So our 93 octane is closer to your 98 octane. I guess you're right. Wikipedia says that we use RON i the whole Europe, so also in Poland. But it also says that most hydrocarbons have higher MON than RON, so I'm not sure whether your 93 would be better than our 93. |
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Post by Aurora40 on Jan 19, 2009 13:14:19 GMT -6
So I should continue to run it, it wont burn to hot, its a relatively safe product? I tihnk I might conbtinue its use then, but at near 5.00 a gallon its gonna be darn near impossible to fill er up on it. I wouldn't be concerned about running what's in the tank (assuming it's not leaded, but that would likely be higher than 100 octane). But I also wouldn't pay to fill up with it in the future. |
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Post by 95mushroom on Jan 19, 2009 15:27:08 GMT -6
I suspect you, like most of Europe, have octane rated by the RON (research octane). In the US it is the average of RON and MON. So our 93 octane is closer to your 98 octane. I guess you're right. Wikipedia says that we use RON i the whole Europe, so also in Poland. But it also says that most hydrocarbons have higher MON than RON, so I'm not sure whether your 93 would be better than our 93. MON is the same across the different grades of gas, as the amount of hydrocarbons doesn't change for different grades.  Quick way to convert RON into AKI, aka PON, aka RdON, is RON x 0.95. So RON 95 is equal to North America 91, and RON 98 is 93.1 AKI. I am also pretty sure seeing/feeling any gains is a placebo effect. Fuel Injections normally run under full advance, all the time. Only would knock is detected, does the motor being to retard itself. These is backed when aurorabrain ran 89 octane in his Aurora, and noted below a certain temp. 70° is believe he said, there wasn't retarding. www.fuelinjection.com/portinj.htm |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2009 17:14:09 GMT -6
ok so there is no real gain in performance, but does it make the car run better, could it help clean valves?
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Post by 95mushroom on Jan 20, 2009 0:55:49 GMT -6
No, the detergents and add packs are the same for different grade of fuel. Some might argue that 'racing fuel' might even have less.
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Post by killroypete on Jan 20, 2009 7:53:31 GMT -6
What about lead content? It might foul up the catalytic converter?
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Post by Marc on Jan 20, 2009 9:51:57 GMT -6
Some Turbo Blue gas is unleaded, some isn't. The lead will foul the catcon. You have watch what grade you buy, if you can get it near you. See the chart at the site mentioned below. www.turboblue.com/typical.asp |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2009 17:41:11 GMT -6
ya its turbo blue unleaded, but if there are no downs and no ups, it just seems like a waste. I'll give it a try and see how it goes.
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Post by dynamic1964 on Feb 2, 2009 18:30:35 GMT -6
When SAAB came with the 95 model they recommended the highest octane (98 here in Sweden) on 2,3 engine with turbo. More horsepower and better fuel economy.
Then they came with the Bio-power E85 Ethanol. Its higher octane on ethanol, so the same engine give 30 more hp. But only if you use E85.
I asked a friend about this ho drive SAAB 95 and yes, so it is. He agreed.
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Post by 71corvette454 on Feb 3, 2009 6:38:19 GMT -6
As I know Koenigsegg CCXR also uses E85 and has over 1000 hp. Ethanol is also good for the environment (polish web page interia.pl says that the emission of bad pollutions is about 80% less). But you can't buy it in Poland (no distributors here) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2009 16:45:22 GMT -6
so use it or lose it?  |
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Post by 71corvette454 on Feb 4, 2009 13:10:38 GMT -6
I say what I said before: use it. I'm not an expert, but I know what I feel - my car is definetly faster on higher octan
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Feb 4, 2009 13:12:51 GMT -6
I say what I said before: use it. I'm not an expert, but I know what I feel - my car is definetly faster on higher octan X2 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 20:09:09 GMT -6
K I'll be using it!
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gmfreak
Aurora Watcher
Torque, No Your honda cant do this.
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Post by gmfreak on Feb 14, 2009 23:55:48 GMT -6
so should i use some octane booster? *devilish thoughts*
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Post by Speed Neon on Feb 14, 2009 23:57:11 GMT -6
no octane booster is a waste of money. truly a placebo product in my mind.
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Post by filmjay on Apr 14, 2009 5:04:41 GMT -6
High octane fuels are not necessary without a high CR. (11 or 12:1 or more) The first gen 4.0L Auroras have a CR of 10.5:1 and would see a marginal increase in performance. (MAYBE 5-10hp at most on a stock motor) The 2nd Gen Auroras have a lower CR and really won't see any benefit. Past 98 octane or so and it's wasted effort unless you have the high CR or 10-12psi or more of forced induction to warrant it. I'll bet you've got an uber-clean fuel system though.  Also, Turbo Blue doesn't make their leaded gasolines available in pumps. It has to be special ordered in drums or containers. (Turbo Blues good stuff, but I'm partial to VP Fuels myself.) Really it's just regular race gas with tetraethyl added to increase the octane rating. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2009 8:37:25 GMT -6
High octane fuels are not necessary without a high CR. (11 or 12:1 or more) The first gen 4.0L Auroras have a CR of 10.5:1 and would see a marginal increase in performance. (MAYBE 5-10hp at most on a stock motor) The 2nd Gen Auroras have a lower CR and really won't see any benefit. Past 98 octane or so and it's wasted effort unless you have the high CR or 10-12psi or more of forced induction to warrant it. I'll bet you've got an uber-clean fuel system though. Also, Turbo Blue doesn't make their leaded gasolines available in pumps. It has to be special ordered in drums or containers. (Turbo Blues good stuff, but I'm partial to VP Fuels myself.) Really it's just regular race gas with tetraethyl added to increase the octane rating. well turbo blue is offered at my mothers gas station in a pump......right now they dont deliver it too often due to poor sales, but it still comes in! |
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Apr 14, 2009 8:53:16 GMT -6
the 2008 Jayhawk Motorsports formula car uses Sunoco 100 Octane race fuel and it runs 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, so it can't be all bad! We switched to E85 for the 2009 car. It gives it a little more power, but mostly we do it b/c we can get it for free. (Gotta love those sponsorships!)
I've always wanted to try some in the Aurora, once we get a little extra around the shop I'll put a tank of it in and see what it does.
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Post by filmjay on Apr 14, 2009 9:54:42 GMT -6
NO! DON'T PUT E85 IN A NON-E85 MOTOR!!!!
Ethanol does NOT play well with natural rubber, bare aluminum, brass or plated tanks. It will etch and potentially dissolve porous metals and it will dissolve/corrode anything rubber it comes in contact with. (gaskets, seals, o-rings, etc...)
Not to mention that etoh is constantly reacting with oxygen and forming acetic acid...which isn't REALLY bad, since that's what gives vinegar it's smell...but in concentrated amounts can dissolve flesh, composites, or even metal. (including your gas tank, fuel lines, fuel filter, pressure regulator, etc, etc...you get the idea.
You also MUST have a minimum compression ratio of about 12:1. The 10.5:1 in 1st gen Aurora won't cut it...and the later models have even less compression.
You cannot run e85 in a vehicle that wasn't designed, or at least modified specifically to run it.
...and higher octane gas doesn't give you more power. It is harder to ignite, so it simply burns cleaner. The higher the octane, the slower the burn. Higher octane fuel in and of itself does not improve performance or fuel economy. In fact it can be quite the opposite.
Higher octane fuel burns slower than lower octane fuels do to prevent detonation. Running more octane than you need will cause more engine deposits to form, and that will cause a decrease in engine performance and fuel economy over time.
As part of my job, I get the opportunity to talk to a lot of people in the automotive and aftermarket industries and I've asked this same question to numerous factory and design engineers, professional racers, builders, etc..all of whom know far more about the subject than myself and 99.9% of anyone else out there...and always get about the same answer...which is, "No, higher octane doesn't affect the performance. It only allows the engine to perform at its' potential"
High octane fuels are only needed or desirable when using a non-standard compression ratio...roughly over 11:1. And anything over 93-95 octane in a street vehicle is not only "overkill", can actually do more harm to your engine than good.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2009 11:00:32 GMT -6
NO! DON'T PUT E85 IN A NON-E85 MOTOR!!!! Ethanol does NOT play well with natural rubber, bare aluminum, brass or plated tanks. It will etch and potentially dissolve porous metals and it will dissolve/corrode anything rubber it comes in contact with. (gaskets, seals, o-rings, etc...) Not to mention that etoh is constantly reacting with oxygen and forming acetic acid...which isn't REALLY bad, since that's what gives vinegar it's smell...but in concentrated amounts can dissolve flesh, composites, or even metal. (including your gas tank, fuel lines, fuel filter, pressure regulator, etc, etc...you get the idea. You also MUST have a minimum compression ratio of about 12:1. The 10.5:1 in 1st gen Aurora won't cut it...and the later models have even less compression. You cannot run e85 in a vehicle that wasn't designed, or at least modified specifically to run it. ...and higher octane gas doesn't give you more power. It is harder to ignite, so it simply burns cleaner. The higher the octane, the slower the burn. Higher octane fuel in and of itself does not improve performance or fuel economy. In fact it can be quite the opposite. Higher octane fuel burns slower than lower octane fuels do to prevent detonation. Running more octane than you need will cause more engine deposits to form, and that will cause a decrease in engine performance and fuel economy over time. As part of my job, I get the opportunity to talk to a lot of people in the automotive and aftermarket industries and I've asked this same question to numerous factory and design engineers, professional racers, builders, etc..all of whom know far more about the subject than myself and 99.9% of anyone else out there...and always get about the same answer...which is, "No, higher octane doesn't affect the performance. It only allows the engine to perform at its' potential" High octane fuels are only needed or desirable when using a non-standard compression ratio...roughly over 11:1. And anything over 93-95 octane in a street vehicle is not only "overkill", can actually do more harm to your engine than good. oh boy you just opened an old can of worms. We currently have one aurora owner (speed neon) who currently runs E85 in his car. He has ran it in there for almost a year now I believe, and all he had to do was up the fuel presusre and I think he swapped out the injectors. It IS possible and so far he has not had many problems with it. That doesnt mean I say go out there and fill up on E-85 because that would be bad advice |
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Apr 14, 2009 11:57:38 GMT -6
When I said "2009 car" I meant the one that we're building currently. go to www.jayhawkmotorsports.com and you can see some pictures of what kind of car we make, it's like a big go-kart that goes 130mph. My point being that we take a stock engine (Aprilia SX55 V-Twin) and completely re-do everything so that it's E85 compatible. We're not running E85 in one that requires 100 haha, no worries. It has been done around here to a classic before, however... but we don't need to get into that again. |
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I bet that 100 octane really makes a difference.
