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Post by bajagto on Mar 19, 2010 5:16:35 GMT -6
Got that message this morning when I started up my car along with the battery light.
Had to gamble and drove it to work anyway after doing a quick function test.
My volts (according to the DIC) remained at 12.9 for the entire 30 mile drive to work. It was obviously dark so the headlights were on, etc.
My past experience with other cars tells me that light means alternator. But...seeing that the volt meter never dropped, does it simply mean that the battery is weak?
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance....
-Ted
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Post by bajagto on Mar 19, 2010 5:30:16 GMT -6
I forgot to mention...2002 3.5L
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Post by sall on Mar 19, 2010 8:57:54 GMT -6
Have the alternator tested. It may be wiring as well, but doubtful. You should see a DIC voltage of at least 14v at all times when running. Anything below 14 or above 16 and the light kicks (this is on a Classic, but assuming 2g is similar)
A battery at full charge with no alternator will be right around 12.6v in itself, see what I mean?
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RCA1186
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Rob
Go Pack Go!
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Post by RCA1186 on Mar 19, 2010 10:04:30 GMT -6
Have the alternator tested. It may be wiring as well, but doubtful. You should see a DIC voltage of at least 14v at all times when running. Anything below 14 or above 16 and the light kicks (this is on a Classic, but assuming 2g is similar) My voltage frequently drops in the mid 13's when idling, I've seen it drop to as low as 12.9v. I've never seen any light kick on from it though. It goes right up to about 15-15.1v when I'm actually on the gas pedal though. I don't know maybe I just need a new belt? Haha
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Post by sall on Mar 19, 2010 10:07:43 GMT -6
Well, I could be wrong, it's happened before. I'll check the FSM and see what it says exactly a bit later. Those numbers might be slightly skewed but I know 16v one is right.
EDIT: On a Classic voltage at idle should be 13.3-15.5v
On a 2G Check charge system comes on when battery voltage drops below 11v or above 16v. So, OP posters must have dropped below 11 at one time during ignition cycle.
Charging voltage should be between 13 and 16v on a 2G.
I'll look more in depth later as well.
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Post by bajagto on Mar 19, 2010 11:54:18 GMT -6
I had the battery and alt checked this morning. Both tested fine. Alt was throwing 14+ volts. Any new leads?
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Post by aurora2001tan on Mar 19, 2010 19:41:12 GMT -6
cheap testors can miss bad cells in the battery. Dealer battery tester is whats best. Its hard to screw up the alt test. If the alt is putting out the right amps then so be it.
Remeber all alt. before 1995 were chargers. After 95 they are only maintainers. So charge the hell out of battery and then see what happens.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 20:08:21 GMT -6
cheap testors can miss bad cells in the battery. Dealer battery tester is whats best. Its hard to screw up the alt test. If the alt is putting out the right amps then so be it. Remeber all alt. before 1995 were chargers. After 95 they are only maintainers. So charge the heck out of battery and then see what happens. Couldn't agree more. An alternator will bring the charge of a battery back up. But all it is doing is charging the acid that is in the battery. A battery has two main parts. Acid, and 6 led "cells". Each cell puts out an average of 2 volts. Hence the 12-12.8 volts a new battery should have. The acid is made up of a combination of sulfuric acid and distilled water. When combined these two create a chemical reaction inside the battery along with the led cells. As the atoms get "happy" they produce an electrical charge. This charge is what powers our vehicles. The led cells need a charge, if the battery is worn down, dies, or loses acid the led cells lose voltage. Charging the acid with the the alternator (as most of us do after a jump) is fine and dandy but the life of the acid is significantly shortened due to the cells drawing power from the acid to maintain their charge. What it boils down to is this. If your battery is exhibiting these signs but alternator checks out, head down to your local walmart, buy an el-cheapo charger and put that baby on while you sleep. While charging the cells and acid, the atoms will be happy and continue to produce the proper amount of amps during cold start scenarios. Instead of draining on the alt. to maintain proper charge. the alt will simply power all the accessory's and keep the battery in check. It pays to have a father in the battery industry for 22 years. ;D
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Post by bajagto on Mar 20, 2010 20:53:48 GMT -6
cheap testors can miss bad cells in the battery. Dealer battery tester is whats best. Its hard to screw up the alt test. If the alt is putting out the right amps then so be it. Remeber all alt. before 1995 were chargers. After 95 they are only maintainers. So charge the heck out of battery and then see what happens. Couldn't agree more. An alternator will bring the charge of a battery back up. But all it is doing is charging the acid that is in the battery. A battery has two main parts. Acid, and 6 led "cells". Each cell puts out an average of 2 volts. Hence the 12-12.8 volts a new battery should have. The acid is made up of a combination of sulfuric acid and distilled water. When combined these two create a chemical reaction inside the battery along with the led cells. As the atoms get "happy" they produce an electrical charge. This charge is what powers our vehicles. The led cells need a charge, if the battery is worn down, dies, or loses acid the led cells lose voltage. Charging the acid with the the alternator (as most of us do after a jump) is fine and dandy but the life of the acid is significantly shortened due to the cells drawing power from the acid to maintain their charge. What it boils down to is this. If your battery is exhibiting these signs but alternator checks out, head down to your local walmart, buy an el-cheapo charger and put that baby on while you sleep. While charging the cells and acid, the atoms will be happy and continue to produce the proper amount of amps during cold start scenarios. Instead of draining on the alt. to maintain proper charge. the alt will simply power all the accessory's and keep the battery in check. It pays to have a father in the battery industry for 22 years. ;D But will a bad battery still show low volts on the DIC? Seems like the DIC would be reading off the output of the alternator....just a guess.
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Post by aurora2001tan on Mar 21, 2010 7:36:48 GMT -6
yes a bad battery will show low volts in the DIC. You have to determin in what way your battery is bad though. Is it because of sitting uncharged, or does it have an internal problem.
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Post by bajagto on Mar 21, 2010 8:04:44 GMT -6
yes a bad battery will show low volts in the DIC. You have to determin in what way your battery is bad though. Is it because of sitting uncharged, or does it have an internal problem. Well...I left my charger on it overnight. Came out this morning and the charger was bouncing off the 100% and reading fully charged. Started the car up. DIC still reading 12.9 and after 1 minute or so I got the "Check Charging System" on the DIC again. So...I have removed the battery and will be going to have it tested again. I really hope it's the battery. But, I have a 1 PM appointment monday at the stealership for further diagnostics since the independent shop couldn't find the root cause.
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BNICOV
Aurora Lover
Posts: 782
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Post by BNICOV on Mar 21, 2010 8:43:29 GMT -6
I would check the grounds, starting with the one under the under hood fuse box. You will get stranded at some point.
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Post by bajagto on Mar 21, 2010 8:52:51 GMT -6
I would check the grounds, starting with the one under the under hood fuse box. You will get stranded at some point. Anyone know where all the grounds are? And by 'check them' do you mean just to check and see if there is no obvious corrosion and that they are tight?
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Post by bajagto on Mar 21, 2010 11:24:47 GMT -6
the battery was new in 2009. Feb 2009 according to the top of the battery
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2010 18:05:42 GMT -6
the battery was new in 2009. Feb 2009 according to the top of the battery New or refurbished? An el cheapo refurbished battery will probably give you about a year of life. Half of my fathers business is for people that aren't willing to drop the 50-70 bucks for a new one but willing to pay 10 bucks for a refurbished one with new acid. On most battery's the plastic will be stamped on the positive or negative side with the manfr, date. If not stamped look for a sticker. The stickers used are not easy to peel off so if you see the remnants of a past sticker then the battery very easily may be refurbished.
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Post by bajagto on Mar 21, 2010 18:09:01 GMT -6
The battery is newer. Not refurbed.
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BNICOV
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Post by BNICOV on Mar 22, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -6
The culprit that I had was the ground connection just under the under hood fuse fox. You can barely see it but that could very well be your problem. Check it, replace the lug, clean the contact surface and try that. It's a $2 potential fix. Good luck.
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Post by cadboy1 on Mar 22, 2010 18:59:11 GMT -6
The culprit that I had was the ground connection just under the under hood fuse fox. You can barely see it but that could very well be your problem. Check it, replace the lug, clean the contact surface and try that. It's a $2 potential fix. Good luck. I had the same problem. But my idle would drop when I came to a stop and the volts would go up and down as I accelerate and brake.
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Post by bajagto on Mar 26, 2010 8:22:46 GMT -6
Quick update: I had my car checked out at the dealer. Paid them a diagnostic fee to check it out for me since they are the experts. They said it was the alternator. Talked to the tech myself...said he checked the voltage under the hood and it was low. They quoted me $600+ to change the alt.
I took it to an indy shop and they replaced it for $300. Guess what? That wasn't the problem. SO now I am out $300 plus the idiot light is still on. I called the dealer, and he agreed to look at it again monday morning. He told me to bring the receipt in for the repair..we are going to discuss his obligations.
I will check the grounding spot under the hood this weekend.
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Post by aurora2001tan on Mar 26, 2010 19:36:13 GMT -6
:rolleyes: thats unacceptable. Dealers have the most expensive test equipment and testing for the right amps out of an altenator is a simple test. [glow=red,2,300] I WOULD BE FURIOUS!!!!!!![/glow]
The charge is a rip off too. alt change is easy in the 3.5, the rad does not have to be taken out. Its a two-3 hour job.
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Post by bajagto on Mar 29, 2010 11:15:36 GMT -6
Well...it turns out it was a fuse that was blown under the back seat. The fuse was labeled "DIM". The dealership disgnosed this issue and fixed it free of charge. They also refunded my diagnostic fee from the previous visit. The only thing I was able to negotiate further was 2 free oil changes.
Still a little miffed...but I never would have been able to diagnose that issue
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Post by maxheadroom on Apr 4, 2010 13:21:03 GMT -6
But all it is doing is charging the acid that is in the battery. A battery has two main parts. Acid, and 6 led "cells". Each cell puts out an average of 2 volts. .. The led cells need a charge, if the battery is worn down, dies, or loses acid the led cells lose voltage. What actually happens is the cells are porous lead, when the battery discharges, the acid is taken in by the porous cells, leaving distilled water as an electrolyte. Remember when batteries had top up plugs to check the charge/discharge with a hydrometer? When you charge the battery, it drives the acid back into the distilled water. Automobile alternators are typically over rated, current wise, there is no way a 100~150 amp alternator of that physical size will deliver that current more than a Minuit or two. Max.
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Post by bobasaurus on May 25, 2010 18:21:35 GMT -6
The alternator communicates with the engine computer to tell the computer how hard it is working. There is an extra wire on the alternator connector that to carries the signal. If that signal is missing or if the alternator is communicating it is working to hard the DIC will display the check charging system message.
I fought this problem and it was a broken wire on the communication wire. I broke it removing my starter to replace my cam position sensor a year ago.
I would guess:
1. Alternator not communicating with computer. 2. Broken wire 3. Alternator is working near maximum.
Good luck, Bobby
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Post by clutch1 on May 26, 2010 22:52:11 GMT -6
WOW!!!! The technician that originally couldn't diagnose the blown fuse is an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
The "DIM" fuse directly feeds the alternator's field current... without it, the field coil won't build a magnet and thus it won't charge. I pulled up the wiring diagram and it's veryyyy obvious. A simple check of the 3 wire harness voltages could've shown exactly where the problem was.
Tell that dealer to get a smarter tec.
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Sherman76
Aurora Newbie
Still got check gas cap message ABS light low tire pressure Low coolant
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Post by Sherman76 on Apr 8, 2019 10:57:32 GMT -6
So I have replaced my battery my alternator checked the fuses and ground under the fuse box I’m out of options! 2001 aurora v6 I’m so sad! I can’t drive it due to this check system failure. When I hooked up the battery I could hear like a clicking sound from the fuse box idk
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tigger
Administrator
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Post by tigger on Apr 8, 2019 15:52:16 GMT -6
Only 2 things left in the 'charging system', the PCM and the wiring between everything...
First, I'd find that clicking relay! Use a mechanic's stethoscope or long screwdriver to help identify it. Once you've found it, pull it and swap in another from the fusebox. If the clicking stops, go buy a new relay to replace the first one you pulled. If the clicking doesn't stop, get out your voltmeter, you're gonna be checking a lot of wires. It may have nothing to do with your charging issue, but it ain't helping anything, haha.
Only other suggestion I have is to check the resistance of your battery to body and engine to body grounds.
GL
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Post by aurorafustration on Apr 12, 2019 23:06:33 GMT -6
Only 2 things left in the 'charging system', the PCM and the wiring between everything... First, I'd find that clicking relay! Use a mechanic's stethoscope or long screwdriver to help identify it. Once you've found it, pull it and swap in another from the fusebox. If the clicking stops, go buy a new relay to replace the first one you pulled. If the clicking doesn't stop, get out your voltmeter, you're gonna be checking a lot of wires. It may have nothing to do with your charging issue, but it ain't helping anything, haha. Only other suggestion I have is to check the resistance of your battery to body and engine to body grounds. GL
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