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Post by scottyaurorav8 on Jan 14, 2013 4:48:06 GMT -6
Hey guys, I was checking for tuning updates for the 01- 03' Aurora 4.0 and on google came across PCMperformance.com. According to the website they can tune an Aurora, it says they can fully tune a Siemens PCM....or however you spell it.
I wanted to see what you guys made of this....I never heard of this website before....but if it's true this is outstanding!
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Post by shelbyracing on Jan 14, 2013 11:07:51 GMT -6
I emailed them with a few questions, will post response.
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Post by renaldo0613 on Jan 14, 2013 12:53:57 GMT -6
I emailed them with a few questions, will post response. Cool beans |
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Jan 14, 2013 13:16:00 GMT -6
It would be great if they could but I would be wary of having them do anything beyond removing the speed limiter... Mail-order tunes are never as accurate as tuning in the car on a Dyno or on the road. It probably wouldn't run as smooth as the factory tune, but if it's only for temporary use then I guess that's ok.
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Post by shelbyracing on Jan 14, 2013 13:19:22 GMT -6
Here it is, sounds legitimate.
Can you guys tune a 97 Aurora?
yes.
I have a Shelby Series 1 Modded engine in mine. What does your Shelby Series 1 tune consist of?
i'd start with changing the engine maps to those in the shelby calibration (the LS1 box based tune) and make additional changes depending on what mods you have made. the rest of the tune is the usual stuff -- firmer shifts, more aggressive shift points, torque mgt and speed limiter delete, etc. please see the form below. we are currently doing N* based tunes for $375.
what is the rpm limit on the Shelby tune?
6800. but it is a manual calibration.
I would like my shift points near 7k.
there needs to be a buffer between limiter and commanded shift RPM. i can set the shifts at 6500 and limter at 7k.
if you would like order you can send in the PCM with the completed order form a $375 US postal money order made out to my name. if you would like to buy a tuned ECM outright instead of sending yours in, it would be +$100 for the PCM and i can send you a paypal invoice for the total.
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Post by sall on Jan 14, 2013 13:25:19 GMT -6
It reminded a lot of ajxtcman/caleditors website what caught me as well was the programmer@ email address. I am sure it is coincidence though. Remember what the Wester's guy said though. He is the only one who knows how to tune them and everyone sends them to him from the other website who claim to tune them. Westers $495 w/ PCM included. I don't know if that still holds up though.
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Post by shelbyracing on Jan 14, 2013 14:01:03 GMT -6
^That's what I was kinda thinking honestly.
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Post by shelbyracing on Jan 14, 2013 14:28:19 GMT -6
Robert Sizemore
Do you offer Dyno tunes if one were to drive to a location?
Alexander Rutenburg
not for this PCM. it is not tunable with standard tools (like HPT or EFIlive), i actually need the PCM here on the bench and some time to map it.
^^Probably needs to mail it to Lyndon @ Wester's haha <<Speculation implied.
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Post by wireless on Jan 14, 2013 14:45:31 GMT -6
$475 is a really good price IMO.
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Post by sall on Jan 14, 2013 14:49:33 GMT -6
Robert Sizemore Do you offer Dyno tunes if one were to drive to a location? Alexander Rutenburg not for this PCM. it is not tunable with standard tools (like HPT or EFIlive), i actually need the PCM here on the bench and some time to map it. ^^Probably needs to mail it to Lyndon @ Wester's haha <<Speculation implied. From my reading you have to de-solder the chip and insert it into a reader and edit the hex from there. So, while he might be able to do it I still bet it is shipped to westers. That is my main issue with these tunes is I want the ability modify and experiment myself not be stuck sending it back and forth changes. |
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Post by wireless on Jan 14, 2013 14:53:55 GMT -6
^ get an LS1 ECU to take over the fuel/spark maps etc ;D
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Post by sall on Jan 14, 2013 15:02:22 GMT -6
Haha not worth it for me at the moment. I have no real need for a tune. I would rather figure out how to do it myself, figures. lol.
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Post by scottyaurorav8 on Jan 15, 2013 0:07:38 GMT -6
Xjsman- I agree with you on the tuning. I had an 06' LS2 Vette I got dyno tuned and tuned while I drove it as well. Car ran excellent, but, I also had a Grand National, Supercharged Buick Regal GS and Pontiac GTP which I only got a PCM tuned and turned out excellent, so if this can be done, I'm sure it be fine like the rest of the PCM tunes you can purchase out there.
Shelby- in your reply you showed that PCM Performance are charging $375 for a PCM tune and can offer the typical tuning package like most vendors. Then they said if you would like, you could buy a tuned ECM. I'm confused, this is unlike any other tuning I ever purchased. Usually it's been a PCM you purchase and once it arrives, your pop it in then do a case re-learn and your good to go. So what's with this ECM business...for this tune you need to purchase both a PCM and ECM?
Sall- The thing that confuses me is that Wester's website still doesn't show tuning available for a 01'- 03' Aurora. He only offeres a Shelby 4.0 and 1G Aurora tuning and the prices are $529.... It's pretty good speculation that PCMperformance would send their PCMs to Westers, but given the info above I wouldn't think it be possible, right? Besides PCMPerformance is charging $375 for a PCM tune., they would have no choice to but charge even more that Westers I would think if they acted as the middle man....
The only thing I question is these guys from PCMPerformance came outta nowhere. I would think if they can tune an Aurora, they must have an Aurora to test or somebody's Aurora to test. It be nice to see Dyno results, or something.
So anybody going to actually try and go for the tune?
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Post by shelbyracing on Jan 15, 2013 3:15:46 GMT -6
That guy was just using two different words for almost the same meaning. ECU is strictly engine control, our cars only have a PCM. It controls the entire Powertrain. He was referring to the possibility of mailing your PCM to him and having down time as opposed to buying a new one with tune flashed.
There was another guy claiming to have been able to tune these cars, however he was just purchasing a tune (trading information to obtain a tuned PCM) from Wester's a.k.a Lyndon @ Wester's. Then he was copying the info to reproduce results. Lyndon said he is the only one possible to tune a Northstar PCM (I believe).
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Post by wireless on Jan 15, 2013 7:40:30 GMT -6
Still dunno how much of a valid claim that is, regarding Lyndon, since nobody here did it. lol
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Jan 15, 2013 8:24:41 GMT -6
Yeah I don't know how he could be sending it to westers if its cheaper, I doubt westers would give this guy enough of a deal for him to sell the service cheaper and make a profit. And no one here has done anything except talk to westers, who I'm sure wants to sell his service to us and might say something like that. Lol
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Post by sall on Jan 15, 2013 9:20:35 GMT -6
Used PCMs don't cost $100. The base price of the tune w/o PCM is probably the same. The additional money is for the PCM for no down time. So they sends a $20 PCM to Westers still make a small amount of money, might have a customer for life. I am not saying that is what is happening but up until a few months ago no one could tune these but Westers. There is no real demand for these tuned PCMs and I highly doubt unless Lyndon got paid a large some of money he didn't give up his VDF/calibration. Go look on the various cadillacs forums  I am confident you will find a few tunes by westers 96-99 and 00-03 and up. Lyndon has no reason to lie about being able to tune a Classic. He owns a reputable business where others send him PCM and they send it back with their name on the box. This has been proven in another thread. I believe one about some tuning place in NY who said this is what they do with these PCMs. Wester's tune for the 2G is the same as the tune for 2000-2003 N* which use the same PCM just like Classic and Cadillacs 96-99. |
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Jan 15, 2013 10:24:25 GMT -6
I'm not saying Westers is lying about being able to tune it, I'm sure he can. I think that we can agree on. I'm saying that it's possible that there is another tuner out there, that if someone says they can tune it that it doesn't necessarily mean they have to send it to Westers. A lot of people may send them to him but that doesn't mean everyone does. Or am I misunderstanding you?
Maybe someone could contact Westers and see if these PCMperformance.com guys send stuff to him?
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Post by lanceslambos on Jan 15, 2013 10:43:40 GMT -6
here fishy fishy fishy
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Post by sall on Jan 15, 2013 11:24:35 GMT -6
No, I realize it is possible for someone else to figure it out. From the extent of trouble Lyndon supposedly went to for proper VDF/Calibration I believe it is more probable that they are being sent to Westers or Lyndon has sold VDF/Calibration. There is no demand for these tunes in all reality it's a waste of time for someone to figure it out. Who knows though. I am sure a few emails can pin it down! Strangely enough it looks like Westers prices jumped since this morning.
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Post by Marc on Jan 15, 2013 12:35:44 GMT -6
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Post by Marc on Jan 15, 2013 12:47:00 GMT -6
And another thing, according to the source that I mentioned in my above post: "Since 2005, we have programmed 1000s of ECUs for satisfied customers. Ask about us..."
- OK, whom do we ask?
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Post by wireless on Jan 15, 2013 14:28:39 GMT -6
^ you can google their name & some keywords and you'll find reviews. Your best bet is to ask a forum that's familiar with them instead of a N* forum where nobody has had it done for their car lol
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Post by scottyaurorav8 on Jan 15, 2013 22:41:54 GMT -6
PCM Performance has a has a phone number listed. I called him today. He's a very knowledgeable guy and seems legit. He explained how the Aurora is setup well out of the factory and not much changes could be made for a performance benefit. He advised he could change the fan settings, remove the speed limiter and play with the torque management.....I would say a PCM on a stock Aurora would be worthless.
The cool thing is he stated he could disable the check engine light if you run a hi flo cat or no CAT, or for cam swaps. EGR removal.
I forget, does eliminating the function of the EGR free up HP, I remember there being such a drawn out debate.
Lastly, if this tuning can be done, I'd def. try and do a cam swap...I'd love to take the 300HP N* cams and place them in the Aurora. With the tuning, I'd not throw a code (unsure if it would or not, but the tuning would provide the reassurance)
Also, what is involved in a N* cam swap, is it a expensive nightmare?
So wheres everyone stand on this.....
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Post by renaldo0613 on Jan 16, 2013 0:41:58 GMT -6
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Post by Marc on Jan 16, 2013 7:20:21 GMT -6
Scottyaurorav8......I think it could have been more than 10 years ago
on a forum which has been gone for a long time now(General Motors Forums.com) that somebody tried the 300 HP Northstar cam swap. He said that it completely killed low end torque & he had to go back to the original 4.0 cams.
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Post by wireless on Jan 16, 2013 8:11:03 GMT -6
It's not like there is any low end torque on these anyways..  |
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Post by vectorbundle on Jan 16, 2013 10:36:14 GMT -6
hello,
i am alex of PCMpeformance.com.
there were few emails and phone calls mentioning discussion on aurora board, with similar questions. so i think it would be helpful to clarify.
we don't ship customers ECMs anywhere to tune. turnaround is typically 1-3 days (which would make that quite impossible). i will not discuss how we tune what (lift the chip or read it BDM and map it w/ a hex editor or whatever), but all ECMs are programmed here.
you can send your ECM to tune or buy a tuned one outright. all the current tune pricing is on the website. cost of ECM itself varies, for example, it's +$100 for the SIMTEC P06 box if you prefer to buy rather than send yours in.
technically, ECM = engine control module, PCM = powertrain control module, etc. the terms ECM/PCM/VCM/etc tend to be used interchangeably (including by GM) and it is generally clear from the context what one is talking about. so if i use PCM and ECM in same discussion about a vehicle that uses single module to control the powertrain, obviously i mean the same thing and not some new 2nd module that is completely absent in the original configuration. the list of supported vehicles on our website details what controllers are used in what applications.
we have no dyno results for L47 tunes. most of the N* spark/fuel maps are mapped well from the factory so as i explained in the emails, expect modest gains in terms or raw RWHP #s, 10 or less. most of the improvements will come from the usual stuff -- torque management, trans shift points/pressures. speed limiter removed, fans early.
we did not come out of nowhere, we have been mapping ECMs for several years. all our tunes are guaranteed for 60 days -- you can send it in to adjust something for cost of shipping or return to stock + refund.
thanks for the interest.
best,
alex
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RCA1186
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Rob
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Post by RCA1186 on Jan 16, 2013 11:55:47 GMT -6
Appreciate you coming on and clarifying things!
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Post by sall on Jan 16, 2013 12:14:46 GMT -6
Appreciate you coming on and clarifying things! ^This. Great to know there is another source! Will you offer discount on potential group buy? |
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