frame/subframe issue - car toasted?

[irectus]

so took my 2001 3.5L Olds Aurora to the mechanic today for a few issues... did not like what i heard back from them.

for a little while now i've been hearing a rattle coming from the back passenger side door/rear wheel well area.

supposedly the bolt holding the subframe to the frame is shot. My mechanic is looking to find a bracket/mount that could possibly resolve the problem, but he was saying it was somewhat of a long shot and that this problem is basically passed the point of repair.... meaning cars toast... (supposedly some rust damage is making its way into this equation as well)

is this true? is there ANYTHING i can do? ... this car means a lot to me unfortunately.

[bobsblue95]

Well the subframe can be replaced... the bolt can be replaced.
Unless the frame is severely rusted I don't see why it would be terminal.

[irectus]

bobsblue95, just got the car back from the mechanic. so supposedly...

the frame is rusted out around the bolt which caused it to fall through. they backed the bolt out and put washers so that it wouldn't fall through. he did tell me there is a fix where they can get a mount, but that's aluminum and the frame and bolt is steel. so thats going to create a problem with a bigger fix.

i have other problems with my car, like rust on the frame and parking brake totally ceased up and broken, ac not working, just to mention a few. my mechanic is telling me i'm basically driving my car into the ground at this point (in terms of cost to value). only problem is as i've said before, this car means a lot to me... sentimental value for a number of reasons.... anyway, i'm willing to totally fix her up if its not a ridiculous amount.

my question is, can you restore a well rusted frame? ... i thought people have brought back to life total rust buckets.

[nelson480]

Are you talking where the control arm connects?

[my1stluv]

Of course it's fixable

They could probably make it stronger........just don't let them hose ya

[irectus]

ok good to know. i'm going to an auto body shop tomorrow to get it checked out.... hopefully only good news. fingers crossed!!

[robaurora01]

Thats the first ive heard of these cars rotten out like that.

[Randy T.]

Just replace the sub-frame and the bolts, there are a lot of Auroras in salvage yards, and there are also many newer cars that share the same subframe. The sub-frame is also not too hard to change, it's standard procedure to remove it before swapping the trans. If you don't have salvage yards in your area you should be able to get stuff shipped in, most body shops have connections to get that stuff done easily. As long as the actual frame rails are not rotted too bad you will be okay, but if it's rotted where the frame bolts to the car you may have some serious issues. I recommend also checking above your rear springs, remove the rear wheels and you will see the spot I am talking about on top of the rear springs. I would also have your rear frame mounts and everything checked out, any of those could be rotted, there is also a cover that covers the gas tank inlet hose, pull that, those are usually filled with inches of dirt.



Now, check out these rotten rubber frame mounts, rotten metal frame cup(good one on top), and a rotten bolt that was even bent.

[RCA1186]

I think his problem is where the subframe bolts on is rusted out on the car itself and not the subframe. Same problem killed my old Ford Taurus

[renaldo0613]

Jun 21, 2013 10:48:05 GMT -6 RCA1186 said:

I think his problem is where the subframe bolts on is rusted out on the car itself and not the subframe. Same problem killed my old Ford Taurus

If that's the case, its more than likely toast.

[sall]

I can't see not being able to fix the issue though. A few pictures would be very insightful. This is one reason why my '96 has started to get full rust treatment and prevention. It's hopefully going to be going a very long time. I am starting to nitpick... everything.

Regardless don't let the guy tell you it's not worth fixing. Everything is fixable(to a certain extent). It's probably more so he doesn't want the job.

[robaurora01]

So in light of this recent topic i decided to bring my car on the hoist saturday and check out my rear subframe on my 2001. Well i found out i have a hole about 2 inches long not very tall however i took a picture but photobucket is not letting me upload it off my phone. I think anyone with an 01+ should get your subframe checked on the outer sides by where the tirss are you can see it without taking your tire off check both sides of the veh remb this is for the rear of your car mine happens to be on the driver side this issue. I urge everyone to check this and possibly make this a sticky as im hoping gm might make this a recall since this is a safety issue and if ford is willing to do frame replacement on old vans im sure gm will as well

[rorafan]

Jun 22, 2013 9:38:42 GMT -6 robaurora01 said:

...you can see it without taking your tire off check both sides of the veh remb this is for the rear of your car mine happens to be on the driver side this issue.

I took a trip to the U-pull yesterday and found a classic with a similar issue. This was a '95, build date May 1994. About 140K miles from what I could gather from oil change stickers (cluster was gone).

The issue on this car was on the forward portion of the rear wheel wells. I had taken the rear seat out and noticed rust stains on the inside of both wheel wells. I wanted to find out the cause so I could help prevent the issue on my car. I noticed the stains were concentrated along a body seam so I started gently tapping around the area. Well, a couple taps later and this appeared:





The metal in that area was about as strong as an eggshell. Judging from the rust on this car here and elsewhere underneath I'd say it spent its entire life here in the rustbelt but still...I didn't expect that! In this case, my tapping you'd never notice anything from outside the car either. I only really spotted this with the back seat removed.

This car seemed to have been well taken care of and was very clean, and I'd guess it was washed on a semi-regular basis. Bottom line...one more area for us to watch!

[sall]

^ Yeah. I just treated both rear wheel wells. Rust Converter, POR-15, then undercoated. There are several places back there that collect debris and water/moisture. Mostly around the shock mount holes, top of the spring seat mount and down by the rocker panel. I also took the opportunity to to treat the fuel filler pipes too.

[auroraandy1]

Jun 21, 2013 4:30:20 GMT -6 robaurora01 said:

Thats the first ive heard of these cars rotten out like that.

*raises hand*

Thats 2!

My 3 out of 4 front mount buschings rotted out and had to replace them, and from only having the bolt holding on the one side it spider cracked where it mounts to the uni-body on the floor and there is several cracks where the bolt goes into now (probably 4-5 cracks ranging from 4-9 inches long) it's VERY bad eno ugh to make cracking and snapping noises sometime just going 2 mph and making a left turn. My dad whos a certified Auto Technician, has to cut out about a 8x8 inch slit out of the floor and weld a thick piece of metal in place of it.

So out of the front 4 bolts I only have 3 bolts/buschings on one side and only ONE bushing/bolt on the other side of the front 2 because it rotted and where it cracked on the first bolt it won't take a bolt.

My dad also said besides the Seville and Aurora subframe (he can't recall any other of the G related chassis) having 6 bolts for the subframe, they all have 2 in the front 2 in the back = totalling 4 bolts, but the northstar/4t-80-e has two bolts on each side on the front and than one bolt each side on the rear = 6 bolts (has 1 extra bolt on each side of the front subframe vs. most FWD GM's).

[mrt1963]

i have an o1 base 3.5. i went to get new tires today and the tire place said they could not lift my car. the rear cross member on the drives side crushed when they tried to lift the car. they said i need a new cross member. has anyone tried to change this themselves. i have a well stocked garage and welder. thanks.

[Toronado3800]

Yeah, it can be repaired. There is a cost issue of course.

Every panel you see on this car except the roof, that thing by the wipers and the panel between the trunk and rear window was made in China circa 2000 and welded back in. The frame really wasn't that bad. The floor was toast. The torque boxes and the front of one frame rail were rusted out.

With a fifteen year old car I would think you could find a donor after some hunting and someone who knows how to weld. Might need to move some electronics or fuel lines out of the way or unplug the battery...can't remember all my tigs and migs. I just know I paid dearly for them parts to be installed and was little more than a gopher in that process.

[mrt1963]

I just found a rear cross member out of a caddy at a junk yard for $75. I will cut and patch the frame. Looks easier then swapping the whole frame out. I am wondering what will be next. I just had to replace the the front end. Struts, springs,lower control arms, wheel bearings, axles,inner and outer tie rods and intermediate steering shaft. The car still has a vibration. In front end. You gotta love gm.