rcarlisle
Aurora Watcher
2001 3.5l 138K miles 5/2013
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Post by rcarlisle on May 28, 2014 14:56:52 GMT -6
Hey folks,
I did a search for "rear brakes" as it is time to replace. I came up with several threads and a couple with manual pages that were posted. Unfortunately, the manual posts are gone now. Threads are quite old.
I am proficient at brake pad changes, but there is apparently a special process for the Aurora rears because of hte parking brake? Can anyone detail that for me, so I know what I am about to get into? I saw a special tool mentioned, but also that a pair of pliers will work.
Any help will be muchly appreciated
Randy
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on May 28, 2014 15:25:40 GMT -6
Hello its same concept as front brakes you need a tool to screw the middle caliper part back in. you can rent the tool at Autozone.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on May 28, 2014 15:38:52 GMT -6
The rear pistons twist back in. You can get a cheap tool (brake piston cube) but they're kind of a pain. Recommend a Disc Brake Tool Kit.
Plenty of videos on YouTube to familiarize yourself with how it all works
Good luck, it's not hard.
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Post by Kersh on May 29, 2014 6:30:42 GMT -6
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Post by sall on May 29, 2014 7:12:37 GMT -6
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Post by Kersh on May 29, 2014 8:08:23 GMT -6
I agree with Sall, the kit he has would be easier to use, but for the infrequency of use, I just never spent the "big bucks" for the real tool.
In fact, the first time I did rear brakes with calipers of this style, I used long needle-nose pliers and a pair of vice-grips to hold their alignment. THAT was a pain in the hiney. The cube (as simple as it is) was a joy to use after that experience.
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Post by ohiobuckeye on May 29, 2014 15:45:50 GMT -6
Never needed anything more than a "stout" pair of needle-nose pliers but it ain't easy. That being said, for less than 5 bucks, I'm picking up the cube that fits on a socket extension next time I'm in HF.
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buck91
Aurora Watcher
Posts: 98
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Post by buck91 on Jun 25, 2014 20:11:49 GMT -6
Rear brakes are dragging a bit and completely worn out. Had similar screw down e-brake in an older Mustang but what are the chances these calipers will require replacing vs. just the pins needing to be cleaned/lubed?
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Post by nelson480 on Jul 16, 2014 21:02:25 GMT -6
The pins should always be cleaned and regreased when changing brakes. Make sure they move freely upon new pad install
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Post by beiland on Jul 23, 2014 10:46:32 GMT -6
I guess I should have read this subject thread before I started to replace my rear brake pads. I never had heard of a brake pad piston that 'twisted' in its action. I guess I am just 'old school'.
I did my front pads about 2 months ago and that went along just find (other than my total DISLIKE of these single-piston type disc brakes). My old Mercedes had a piston on either side of rotor and applied a nice even pressure to both sides of the rotor. And changing the pads required about 10 minutes to push out the two snug retaining pins, then pull out the old pads, insert the new ones, and push the 2 retaining pins back in. If I remember correctly a number of our older race cars had the same two opposing pistons arrangements.
So now I go to replace the back pads on my 2001 Aurora. First thing I notice is that the old pads are not as worn as I had expected. And they were worn somewhat unevenly as I have come to expect from these single-piston caliper designs. I then try to leverage against the rotor to push the pistons back into the calipers so I can get the new pads installed. These pistons DO NOT BUDGE! ?? I get a clamp to try and make them move....nothing ?? I open up the bleeder valve to relieve some pressure....nothing !!
I decide to push the car next door to a good reputable repair shop and just have them do it after the weekend. Perhaps they known some tricks I do not know (like that stupid twisting piston motion). They mention that to me on Monday morning, this twisting motion that is needed to compress the pistons back in.
I'm out on a limo job on Tuesday when they call me with the 'news' I'm going to need new calipers and a couple of back brake lines. OK I say,...but WOW its going to cost something like $750 !!! I just throw up my hands and say OK, I'm stuck at the moment. It is then suggested that I replace all the fluid in the system to eliminate any possible contamination by other fluids (the hint is a bloated rubber seal in the top of the master cyl filling chamber) ?? ....this is going to cost another $90. So I say go ahead and get it right.
Today I get a phone call that says they can NOT get the system bled. The ABS computer or something needs a lot of new codes put in, etc, and this could take several hours to straighten out. At this point I feel like I am getting ripped off ?? Tell me, if a modern car shop, who I am sure has dealt with ABS systems and all this new computer crap, should know how to recalibrate the computer codes and get the system bled?? Is that correct? I don't think I should need to pay labor rates of several more hours to accomplish this?? As it is, my rear brake job is now approaching $1000.
BTW how much is the retail price on these new calipers?? (the most expensive parts price of my job??)
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Jul 23, 2014 11:13:16 GMT -6
There is no computer need it to bleed the brakes. if brakes were worn uneven than it means u do need new caliper(s). caliper part about 50-150$ good shops will have a machine that bleed the brakes. and to remove caliper and put new one in takes 10 min tops. so i think 1k for brake job with calipers is too much unless they offer lifetime brake and caliper warranty.
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Post by awehlage on Jul 23, 2014 15:41:53 GMT -6
Get your calipers from advanceauto if you can and use code TRT30. 30% off is nice when you are dealing with an expensive part. I just replaced my rears and bled the brakes myself. Not hard at all!!
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Post by beiland on Jul 23, 2014 22:28:34 GMT -6
.... I just replaced my rears and bled the brakes myself. Not hard at all!! I don't know exactly what mechanic in that shop is doing the work, but supposedly he could not get the brakes bled? Wouldn't most even relatively inexperienced mechanics be able to bleed a brake system? Would ABS system have anything to do with it?? ...or traction control?....or a previous 'fault indication' having to do with 'traction control' or 'check engine'. I'm just not up on this new computer controls in cars? PS: I was really surprised when I tried to open up the bleed ports in the calipers to relieve some pressure that might have allowed the pistons to be pressed back into the calipers.....normally I would have though there would have been a real pronounced squirt of fluid out of those bleed ports. But that did not occur at all. It was barely a dribble of fluid, and only after backing the bleeder port out quite far?? |
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Post by awehlage on Jul 24, 2014 5:39:37 GMT -6
In my experience of bleeding the brakes, I have never had issues. FSM does not indicate anything about having to get into the ABS system to complete the procedure.
Bleeder valve never squirted for me when opened to bleed but then again I've always had a tube on it for bleeding. Even when taking the brake hose off the caliper just get it higher than the hose line and it barely comes out. Not as messy as you'd think!
My CEL has been lit before so I wouldn't think it has anything to do with it. Sounds like they want more money!
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Post by beiland on Jul 24, 2014 20:16:37 GMT -6
What is FSM?
I talked with the shop owner today (by phone) and he indicated that they utilized their Tech 2 machine on the car and were able to get rid of the 'check engine' lite.
BUT, they could not get rid of the 'traction control' lite. Once or twice they thought they got rid of it, but it would come back on. They are of the opinion that this might be caused by some sort of short in the wiring having to do with the 'traction control'....
...and this traction control function is keeping them from being able to bleed the brake system.??
Sound plausible?
I hope I have explained it correctly, as it was explained to me.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Jul 25, 2014 8:41:34 GMT -6
FSM-Field Service Manual.I think u need to find new shop . Any good shop will fix any ABS issue in no time. If it takes them a while they dono what they doing.
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Post by awehlage on Jul 25, 2014 10:42:50 GMT -6
If the traction control light is still on they should look in the FSM and see the procedure for why it is on and then correct the problem. If the shop has a Tech2 then it shouldn't be a problem.
Where you from beiland?
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Post by beiland on Jul 25, 2014 14:44:11 GMT -6
If the traction control light is still on they should look in the FSM and see the procedure for why it is on and then correct the problem. If the shop has a Tech2 then it shouldn't be a problem. Where you from beiland? Would a non-dealer have a FSM ? I'm in Silver Spring Md, just outside WashDC, and I am getting ready to retire to St Augustine Fl in about 2 months. I'm 71 so I'm not 'hip' on all these new electronics in these cars. In fact I think they have overdone it,...at least this certainly appears to be the case if they can not even supply some decent 'electrical connectors' that don't function properly in the many instances that appear on these cars. When I read over these forums and see all of theses various cases of faulty connections, it almost makes me want to get rid of this car before it bankrupts my retirement with all of these electrical repairs.  I mean I like the car, but it just seems to have too many 'electrical gremlins'. I went under the drivers seat to try and find some bad connections that might be causing my windows not to work properly,...and I also sought out those under the passenger side dash. I saw a lot of DIFFERENT connectors, in fact I think there were only 2 of a similar type in the whole group? And each one of these connectors appeared to be manufactured (or designed) by a different entity. It became a puzzle to figure out how to disengage each one so I could spray all the contact areas with an electrical cleaning spray (CRC I believe it was). How does it make sense for all of these connectors to be different? And does that make sense for the purchasing agent at the manufacturer? I think I would have fired the idiot that designed and spec'd that system? ....OKAY got that rant out of my system  |
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Post by beiland on Jul 25, 2014 14:52:20 GMT -6
FSM-Field Service Manual.I think u need to find new shop . Any good shop will fix any ABS issue in no time. If it takes them a while they dono what they doing. Perhaps I'm a little confused,...what exactly differentiates ABS from Traction Control?? ABS is auto braking system...correct? It will let up on the wheel that starts to skid or lock-up? How does Traction Control differ. Can a faulty Traction Control (at least in the eyes of the computer/brain) result in a system that can not be bled? |
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Post by awehlage on Jul 25, 2014 19:17:46 GMT -6
Anybody can get a FSM. You can get the good 'ol paper copy or electronic version.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jul 25, 2014 21:10:19 GMT -6
]Perhaps I'm a little confused,...what exactly differentiates ABS from Traction Control?? ABS is auto braking system...correct? It will let up on the wheel that starts to skid or lock-up? How does Traction Control differ. Can a faulty Traction Control (at least in the eyes of the computer/brain) result in a system that can not be bled? ABS releases brake pressure on a sliding wheel. Traction Control applies brake pressure to a spinning wheel. Speed sensors, one per wheel and one for the body, indicate whether a particular wheel is going too fast or too slow relative to the speed of the vehicle. The EBCM (Electronic Brake Control Module) uses this information to direct the BPMV (Brake Pressure Modulator Valve) to increase or decrease pressure as needed. Add a yaw rate sensor (lateral acceleration) and a couple lines and you've got stability control, in which the system can use ABS and/or Traction Control on each individual wheel simultaneously to help maintain control. My guess in your case is they let air into the modulator. Probably have to be pressure bled. Just a guess. |
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Post by beiland on Jul 27, 2014 8:32:35 GMT -6
]Perhaps I'm a little confused,...what exactly differentiates ABS from Traction Control?? ABS is auto braking system...correct? It will let up on the wheel that starts to skid or lock-up? How does Traction Control differ. Can a faulty Traction Control (at least in the eyes of the computer/brain) result in a system that can not be bled? ABS releases brake pressure on a sliding wheel. Traction Control applies brake pressure to a spinning wheel. Speed sensors, one per wheel and one for the body, indicate whether a particular wheel is going too fast or too slow relative to the speed of the vehicle. The EBCM (Electronic Brake Control Module) uses this information to direct the BPMV (Brake Pressure Modulator Valve) to increase or decrease pressure as needed. Add a yaw rate sensor (lateral acceleration) and a couple lines and you've got stability control, in which the system can use ABS and/or Traction Control on each individual wheel simultaneously to help maintain control. Thanks for that overall system explanation. it makes it more palatable and less confusing to comprehend, and maybe now learn more about it I'm not sure how air might have entered the modulator. but I do know that I backed off both bleeders at the rear calipers trying to lessen pressure on backside of pistons in hopes or getting them to retread back into the calipers. I am also guilty of pushing on the brake pedal ever so softly (without the pads in the rear calipers) when I was trying to move the vehicle the short distance (150ft)to where I was going to leave it for that repair shop to then have a look at the situation on Mon morning following the weekend that I had attempted to replace the pads. So maybe that 'touch' to the brake pedal over-extended the pistons since they had no resistance at that point of time. After they got the car into their shop they called me to inform me they needed to replace the calipers (don't fully understand why yet), and I said go-ahead. I was then informed it might be a good idea to replace all the fluid in the system. I said go-ahead. MAYBE this is where air might have been introduced to the modulator?? |
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Post by beiland on Jul 27, 2014 14:48:05 GMT -6
]Perhaps I'm a little confused,...what exactly differentiates ABS from Traction Control?? ABS is auto braking system...correct? It will let up on the wheel that starts to skid or lock-up? How does Traction Control differ. Can a faulty Traction Control (at least in the eyes of the computer/brain) result in a system that can not be bled? ABS releases brake pressure on a sliding wheel. Traction Control applies brake pressure to a spinning wheel. Speed sensors, one per wheel and one for the body, indicate whether a particular wheel is going too fast or too slow relative to the speed of the vehicle. The EBCM (Electronic Brake Control Module) uses this information to direct the BPMV (Brake Pressure Modulator Valve) to increase or decrease pressure as needed. Add a yaw rate sensor (lateral acceleration) and a couple lines and you've got stability control, in which the system can use ABS and/or Traction Control on each individual wheel simultaneously to help maintain control. My guess in your case is they let air into the modulator. Probably have to be pressure bled. Just a guess. I'm guessing right now (on a Sunday) that they have tried a pressure bleed,...or wait a minute I think they told me they could not do this while the "traction control' is still 'ON' . In other words they have tried to get the computer (or whatever) to turn off the traction control, and it keeps reappearing?? Does this sound like a possibility?? What is the work-around, or solution? |
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jul 28, 2014 20:01:47 GMT -6
I am by no means an ABS expert, but that is perplexing to me. The system can be bled normally unless air is introduced upstream of the pump. In that case, a Tech II can be used to cycle the pump on and off, pushing the air downstream. If this procedure cannot run, I would have to suspect an electrical issue. That shouldn't be too hard to find.
Keep us updated.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Jul 28, 2014 20:10:10 GMT -6
I agree with Tigger
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Post by beiland on Aug 1, 2014 19:05:08 GMT -6
Well they got my brakes bled, and I'm back on the road with a lighter weight wallet.
I took some copies of some of the postings on this forum over to the shop,...particularly those that indicated that a computer 'fault' or setting should NOT be causing a problem with bleeding the brakes. it was then that they indicated another problem with 'pressure bleeding' was that the proper capping (sealing) of the master cylinder was giving them problems,...thus unable to build up a good pressure for bleeding. I think one of the Mac Tool guys dropped by and gave them some assistance in that pressure bleeding operation,...but I'm not certain of that.
So now I am driving again, but my 'Trac Off' light is still on constantly, regardless on my pressing the button on the center console?
Any ideas how I get rid of this??
Today I had another surprise. I'm driving on a little two hour trip to go look at a trailer for sale when suddenly I notice my gas gauge is indicating empty. I pull over to a gas station and by the time I get to the pump, the gauge now indicates a full tank. WOW, am I seeing things?? did I really see an empty indication? I pull back onto the hwy and drive about a mile, and suddenly my gauge goes to empty again!
I find another station and fill it up. Wow, it takes 18.31 gallons! Do these cars have that size tank?? I thought it was less??
After I fill it up the 'Check Engine' light comes on, and stays on for the rest of trip down and back. Would this be usual? Or is there something I can do to get the 'Ck Engine' light to turn off??
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Post by awehlage on Aug 1, 2014 21:56:58 GMT -6
4.0L engine has 17.5 gallon tank and 3.5L engine has a 17 gallon tank iirc.
Sounds like you have a sender unit failure on the fuel pump. Replace the whole pump it will be easier.
As for the TRAC light...probably an electrical problem or module failure.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Aug 2, 2014 6:51:10 GMT -6
Well they say its 17.5 or 18 but I am sure its more than 18 since I did fill up once 18.2... Yes you do need new Fuel level sensor common issue. About the check engine light go to any Autozone or aamco they will scan it for free. And about the Trac control I would go to another shop to fix it. Maybe even dealer if there is no good shops next to you.
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Post by beiland on Aug 3, 2014 12:25:38 GMT -6
I was checking on that total fuel capacity to see if that gas station was actually pumping a correct amount. The price I paid at that Va location was only 3.25 per gallon, while just an hour away in DC the price is 3.65. Thought maybe they were acting to sell cheaper per gallon rate, but under-delivery of volumn?? Wouldn't put it past some of these guys these days.
Gauge appears to be working fine since I filled it up.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Aug 4, 2014 8:27:37 GMT -6
It might work fine until you on empty again.
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