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Post by human on Jan 15, 2015 21:23:02 GMT -6
When I picked my '95 up today, the mechanic said he'd encountered a problem with the ignition switch. It's suddenly become really touchy. You have to be real gentle releasing the key or the spring tension will throw it back enough to shut off the engine. I even discovered I can turn the car off by pushing straight in on the switch, next to the key. It releases the catch that holds the key in the 'on' position.
So what's the prognosis here? Is there something I can adjust or do I need to replace the ignition switch? I looked on the Rockauto Web site and I can get a genuine Delco ignition switch for about $90, not that I'm terribly thrilled about spending that after just shelling out to get the radiator replaced. I guess it would come with instructions for matching up the resistor chips. Interestingly, the switch in the photo showed a key with no chip.
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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Post by human on Jan 15, 2015 22:16:16 GMT -6
Update: I just took a look on eBay and found third-party OEM replacement ignition lock cylinders (Standard Parts) for Classic Auroras in the $35-$40 range with free shipping. They're also pictured with chipless keys but at least one ad I looked at referred to these as "PATT keys". The logical assumption here is that one would use these keys as patterns to have keys with the proper chips cut. Of course, that leads me to another thought. I seem to recall that it's pretty easy to defeat the VATS system by installing a resistor of the proper value somewhere and I'm remembering something about clipping a white wire to do it. The photos of these ignition lock cylinders show a white lead and a black lead. Would it work to measure the resistance on one of my existing keys using a standard volt-ohm meter and then solder a resistor of the proper value onto the white lead of the ignition switch? If so, it would save me almost $60 for a pair of chipped ignition keys. The best price I know of around here is $27 per key. Some places charge upward of $50.
Before I do anything, though, I'm going to pull out my FSM and read up on the procedure for removing and installing an ignition lock cylinder. It can't be that hard, right?
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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98redaurora
Aurora Driver
This is not your fathers Oldsmobile.
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Post by 98redaurora on Jan 15, 2015 23:06:57 GMT -6
Nearly 3 years later my Passkey II/VATTS bypass on my 98 has been flawless. So no worries if you bypass it.
If you get the setup without the chips, I see no reason why the bypass would not work, and save you the $60.
There is a write-up around here that explains how to do the bypass. But yes, you use an ohm-meter and measure the resistance on either side of the chip in your key. The chip is just a resistor.
Hope that helps.
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Randy T.
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☯ AURORA GXP ☯
Posts: 3,758
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Post by Randy T. on Jan 16, 2015 6:48:05 GMT -6
Human, there are 2 different parts associated with starting your Aurora. The ignition lock cylinder is where your key goes in, the ignition switch is a separate part that you can't see, it controls power to everything, it's on the left side of the steering column. If you change your ignition switch, your key and ignition lock cylinder will not need to be changed. I am not exactly sure on this part, but I think the ignition switch is what springs the key back. Not sure what your problem is exactly, but here is a thread on how to change the ignition switch, you can look over it and see what you are dealing with, it also shows how to remove the ignition lock cylinder. Ignition switch replacement. |
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bobsblue95
Super Moderator 
Scars of pleasure, scars of pain. Atmospheric changes make you sensitive again.
Posts: 3,125
Staff Member
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Post by bobsblue95 on Jan 16, 2015 8:50:08 GMT -6
^^^I'm 90% sure you need to replace the electrical switch, NOT the key and tumbler assembly.
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Post by sall on Jan 16, 2015 9:16:58 GMT -6
^^Agreed.
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Post by human on Jan 16, 2015 9:47:01 GMT -6
Thanks for the input. I still haven't decided whether I want to undertake this one myself or take it to my mechanic. Sounds like a trip to the salvage yard may be in order so I can learn by doing as I tear apart a donor car's steering column. Whether I end up buying and using a part from there or not, the $2 gate fee is pretty cheap tuition. If it can be done without removing the steering wheel or messing with the air bag, I'd be up for doing it myself, but the air bag sort of scares me.
Meanwhile, I've figured out that instead of turning and releasing the key when I start the car, I can keep my thumb on it and ease it into the "run" position to avoid the spring tension throwing it back into the "off" position. What worries me a little is, like the recently recalled Chevy Cobalts, etc., there's always a possibility the switch could slip into the "off" position while I'm driving. As a precaution, I've taken the Aurora's keys off my main key ring.
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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bobsblue95
Super Moderator
Scars of pleasure, scars of pain. Atmospheric changes make you sensitive again.
Posts: 3,125
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Post by bobsblue95 on Jan 17, 2015 10:03:03 GMT -6
You can do it! Just get the needed tools lined up and it's not a hard job. Mostly the small reverse-torx drivers (small nut-drivers or sockets can work, as in Randy's post) for the column cover and switch screws. I imagine you'll save at least a hundred bucks in labor.
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Post by human on Jan 17, 2015 16:23:17 GMT -6
That savings may be very much needed as the best price I've found on a starter switch is $113. OUCH!!!  I'm going to have to monitor my two favorite bone yards' Web sites to see when either of them gets another Classic in. Right now, one of them has a 2G on the yard and no classics. The other one has two Classics and two 2G's, but the Classics have both been there for a month or or more, so are likely to have been pretty well picked over. I think I harvested an A/C vent off of one of them back in December and the steering column was completely gone at that time. You can do it! Just get the needed tools lined up and it's not a hard job. Mostly the small reverse-torx drivers (small nut-drivers or sockets can work, as in Randy's post) for the column cover and switch screws. I imagine you'll save at least a hundred bucks in labor. Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora |
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bobsblue95
Super Moderator
Scars of pleasure, scars of pain. Atmospheric changes make you sensitive again.
Posts: 3,125
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Post by bobsblue95 on Jan 20, 2015 13:05:24 GMT -6
Possible that it's the same switch used in Cadillacs of same era (95-99)
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Post by sall on Jan 20, 2015 13:57:16 GMT -6
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Post by human on Jan 21, 2015 9:13:57 GMT -6
Now that's more like it. Thanks for the lead! Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora |
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Post by human on Jan 23, 2015 11:17:03 GMT -6
Ordered one off of eBay for $22.86 w/free shipping. I'm going to try to put it in myself. How open are things once I take the plastic cover off of the steering column? Can I get to the wiring easily? The diagrams in my 1996 FSM are a little unclear. If this were my old LSS, I wouldn't even attempt it because it would require pulling the steering wheel off and I don't have the tools to do that. I may still go to the junk yard and practice on a donor car first, kinda like a medical student practicing on a cadaver before working with a live patient. I'll let you know how it goes.
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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Randy T.
Administrator
☯ AURORA GXP ☯
Posts: 3,758
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Post by Randy T. on Jan 24, 2015 6:43:00 GMT -6
Here is a link to a thread about ignition switches, if you look in the comments, someone posted a link to an ignition switch replacement writeup which is also located in the electrical stickies. Touchy ignition switch |
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Post by sall on Jan 24, 2015 14:02:18 GMT -6
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Post by human on Jan 27, 2015 15:26:04 GMT -6
Sall and Randy, Thanks for the link to the procedure. The photos are a big help in understanding what I'm getting myself into. The starter switch arrived today and once weather and time converge in a favorable way, I will undertake the replacement.
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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Post by sall on Jan 29, 2015 8:12:11 GMT -6
Sall and Randy, Thanks for the link to the procedure. The photos are a big help in understanding what I'm getting myself into. The starter switch arrived today and once weather and time converge in a favorable way, I will undertake the replacement. Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora No problem. Good luck. It's not a difficult repair to be honest. Hardest thing to do is taking the column cover off and it's not that bad! Member Tim1993 claims he purchased that same switch and it was the 'wrong one'. From what I can tell of the pictures and comparison to OEM it correct. So please report back! |
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Post by human on Feb 1, 2015 11:47:07 GMT -6
Okay, I'm kind of stymied. After spending about an hour and a half taking the driver's side of the dash apart to get to the starter switch, I find that it is held in place by two of the strangest little bolts I've ever seen. They're star shaped like a Torx but it's a male head, which means I've got to find a very small, very specialized socket to take the switch off. Oy! Nothing is easy, is it? Just how esoteric is this thing? Is it something AutoZone or Harbor Freight is likely to have? Or am I going to have to find someplace to order this online at an exorbitant price? Right now, I'm just closing up the car and going on with my day.
UPDATE--It's amazing what you can learn with a simple search on eBay. Those little bolts are called external torx or E-torx. They're readily available on eBay for about $12-$13 for an 11-piece set that runs from size E20 down to E4, skipping a few E's along the way. The question that raises is what size are two screws holding that starter switch in place. I'm guessing E4 or E5. The heads are just miniscule. I just want to make sure the set includes the right ones before I order it. It might be worth a trip across town to Harbor Freight to at least look at one if they have it in stock. I think I've got a 20% off coupon for them, anyway. I know, I know, their tools are crap but if I'm not going to use it regularly, it hardly makes sense to shell out a fortune for a high-end tool.
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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Post by human on Feb 1, 2015 13:34:50 GMT -6
So I went down to Harbor Freight. It wasn't productive in the sense that I came home with the necessary tools to complete this job, but it was instructive in that I now know the Internet is going to be my best bet to find it. They had a set of E-torx sockets there, but they only went down to E6, which was way too big. The thing I'm wondering is whether the E4 socket in the set I've got saved on eBay will even be small enough.
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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Post by sall on Feb 1, 2015 13:57:26 GMT -6
So I went down to Harbor Freight. It wasn't productive in the sense that I came home with the necessary tools to complete this job, but it was instructive in that I now know the Internet is going to be my best bet to find it. They had a set of E-torx sockets there, but they only went down to E6, which was way too big. The thing I'm wondering is whether the E4 socket in the set I've got saved on eBay will even be small enough. Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora Just use a 5mm or 3/16" nutdriver. You will not get a socket in all those recesses on the column cover w/o a slim socket. Unless you are referring to the switch torx bolts. |
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tigger
Administrator
Posts: 2,844 
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Post by tigger on Feb 1, 2015 13:57:46 GMT -6
E4 is only 0.15" (3.8mm), it don't get much smaller than that, haha!
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Post by human on Feb 1, 2015 14:32:41 GMT -6
Yes, I'm referring to the two bolts that actually hold the switch in place. They're smaller than the 5mm bolts that hold the two halves of the cover together. I got two of them with a regular socket but needed a deep wall socket for the one closest to the dashboard. I held the tip of my smallest Torx (T15) screwdriver up against the head of the bolt in question and they look to be approximately the same. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx), that would make it an E5 bolt. Guess I'm ordering that set of sockets from eBay. Oh well, it's still cheaper than paying a mechanic to do it, plus I get to keep the tools  Just use a 5mm or 3/16" nutdriver. You will not get a socket in all those recesses on the column cover w/o a slim socket. Unless you are referring to the switch torx bolts. Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora |
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Post by human on Feb 7, 2015 16:20:10 GMT -6
So the torx sockets came in the mail today. E4 is the size needed to remove those little bolts holding the starter switch in place. I successfully removed the old starter switch and now I'm in the process of putting everything back together. The only problem is the switch won't go down into place on the steering column. Is there a trick that I'm missing? Between feeling my frustration level rise and the sun being about to set, I've decided to call it quits for today. I don't know whether I'll have time to mess with it tomorrow or not. This project just feels like it's fighting me every step of the way.
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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Post by sall on Feb 7, 2015 17:25:17 GMT -6
It has been a while since I modified a spare ignition switch/harness for my remote start but if I recall correctly the key needs to be in the ignition. Maybe in a certain position. Sorry I can't be of more help.
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Post by human on Feb 8, 2015 10:47:27 GMT -6
Well, I kept messing with it and finally got the switch seated and bolted in, but it's definitely not together right. I can turn the key all the way forward and there's no spring tension. Also, it won't turn back to the 'accessory' position. I'm thinking I may have to pop the lock cylinder and reassemble things from that direction. I've read and re-read the FSM and it's not providing much insight.
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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Post by human on Mar 7, 2015 12:43:14 GMT -6
Weather and a busy schedule have conspired against me messing with this thing for a whole month, but I started in on it again today and discovered the replacement ignition switch is defective! I tried turning the old switch with a screwdriver and found there was return spring tension from the "start" position back to "run", but when I tried the new switch, there's no return tension. My logical conclusion is the spring is either missing, broken, or improperly installed.
I reinstalled the original switch at the steering column and the key is now turning (and returning) as it should. All that remains now is to plug it in at the firewall and see what happens and take it from there. I figure it can't be any worse than it was. If the problem persists, I may try a junk yard switch that I can at least test the spring action on before I buy it.
Update: I just got in from driving my Aurora for the first time in over a month. Things are working fine with the original switch, although it's still a bit touchy. It took a while to get it all buttoned up. It had been so long since I had taken it apart that I had forgotten the sequence in which I needed to put things back. I only had to remove and install the lower dash panel three times before it was all said and done. It was great being able to finally drive the car again. I plan to take a wait-and-see attitude on whether to replace the starter switch.
Daily Driver: 2011 Impala LT
Weekend Toy: 1995 Aurora
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Post by slcmcguire on Oct 22, 2020 15:49:35 GMT -6
I have this exact issue and sometimes it causes the car to lose power while driving. Someone told me I might not have to replace the part, that I might be able to bend a piece of metal slightly so it makes a better connection and just fix problem that way. Can anyone speak to that? Given that this is a safety issue, is there a case that Oldsmobile should just recall this part and cover the labour cost?
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I'm going to have to monitor my two favorite bone yards' Web sites to see when either of them gets another Classic in. Right now, one of them has a 2G on the yard and no classics. The other one has two Classics and two 2G's, but the Classics have both been there for a month or or more, so are likely to have been pretty well picked over. I think I harvested an A/C vent off of one of them back in December and the steering column was completely gone at that time.
