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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 9:39:46 GMT -6
Hi ACNA,
I recently acquired (bought at a bargain deal from my parents) a '97 Aurora. I really like it. I want to love it, but it has an inconsistent start. In fact, about every sixth attempt results in no start. All the starts in between are variable, sometimes no hesitation, sometimes a little sluggish.
I've taken it to my regular mechanic a few times since acquiring it last fall, he did find out the fuel injector was bad and replaced it, but the starting problem persisted for me. Last May, the gasket on the fuel injector blew, leaking a lot of gas right there at the pump. That got replaced by a mechanic in Washington (I was in the middle of a road trip). Last month, my dad took her back to his mechanic (the one who actually sold it to him ages ago and continued to work on it), he wasn't able to find any issues except a low battery which they recharged. And while driving it around, my dad never experienced any problems nor did they have any issues with it before selling it to me.
Also, the fuel gauge doesn't read accurately. It stays at full until I've used about 4 gallons, then it starts to drop.
Anyway, is this just the way it is with the Classics? If not, it must be user error, since I'm the only one experiencing the seemingly random inconsistent starts. I'm not a brand new driver, I thought I knew how to start a car (although, I'm not mechanically inclined), so what am I doing wrong? I'm hoping its something simple and obvious, at this point I'm ready to own the embarrassment of the "duh" moment. I'm filling her up with premium, so I don't think it's that. New battery maybe?
Help! Please!
Thank you in advance for your time and thoughts!!
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RCA1186
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Rob
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Post by RCA1186 on Jul 19, 2017 10:34:23 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 9:03:03 GMT -6
Thank you!
If it is something mechanical like that though, it doesn't quite follow that I seem to be the only one experiencing the inconsistent starts (maybe just probability as I'm the main driver, but my dad had it and drove it for two-weeks...), but those sounds like good leads and it would be nice if it turns out I'm not an incompetent car owner.
She's due for an oil change soon, so I'll take her to my mechanic and ask that he look into those possibilities. I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks again.
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RCA1186
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Rob
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Post by RCA1186 on Jul 20, 2017 10:48:21 GMT -6
Sorry I didn't ask before, but what does it do when it doesn't start? Does it just click? Does it turn over but not start? Is the "security" light on or do you experience the "clean key" message on the DIC?
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jul 20, 2017 19:55:21 GMT -6
Ignition switch?
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Jul 20, 2017 20:39:59 GMT -6
Clean key is a good thing to check. There's a little system that reads the resistance value in your key (the little black chip) as an anti theft system. Mine went bad and would leave my car unable to start for 3 minutes until I could try again. Left me late for things more than once. I eventually just had to cut the wire and wire in the correct resistance to bypass it.
I had a bad starter do that to me- no real symptoms, just a click instead of a start. It was only intermittent for a week or two though, then it just stopped working altogether. I didn't really know it was the starter until I removed it and the bendix moved around, obviously broken. Swapped in a starter from the parts Aurora and no problems after that.
Best of luck, post here what you find and hopefully we can determine what it might be!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 7:51:05 GMT -6
@rca1186: It turns over, but doesn't start. So far it has started on the second attempt, but it's sluggish too and only seems to barely catch. It seems to run beautifully once it does start. The "security" light does turn on. There is no "clean key" message.
What would I look/listen for if it was the ignition switch?
I'll try the second key I was given.
I will absolutely post back with what I find out or what more I can observe.
Thanks all!
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Jul 22, 2017 8:03:12 GMT -6
Ignition switch is not where the key goes in, it's opposite of the key on the steering column, a separate part that controls all your power on and off. Turned my 97 off and it didn't start for 6 months until I figured out the problem. It would turn over and not start at first, then it quit turning over. I would have a security light on and hear a clicking in the backseat, but nothing would happen. Read this thread, in it is more links and info with symptoms and how to test ignition switch. If it was me I have spares, so I can afford to throw parts at them, I would switch it and see what happens. aurorah.proboards.com/thread/23583 |
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Post by Toronado3800 on Jul 22, 2017 18:48:46 GMT -6
You'd think you would have a miss code if any were really bad, but if they haven't been out in forever and you can change them yourself spark plugs are a relatively cheap part to throw at it
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 14:50:56 GMT -6
Not really an update on the situation, more like making notes at this point as I have yet to bring it to my mechanic. Anyway, had a couple near misses in a row on the start this last weekend (I tend to only drive on the weekends), this has never happened before. Counted 4 "mississippis" before it caught. And I used the second key all weekend, didn't seem to make a difference, so maybe that can be ruled out. Randy T. - It doesn't sound like it has quite the same symptoms as what you described for a bad ignition switch. The other lights do come on when I turn the key and there aren't any other strange/unexpected sounds like clicking from the back seat. Still, maybe it is that the fuel pump isn't getting enough power. I'll add that to the list along with potentially bad spare plugs and/or ignition wires. I wish some of these were easier for a non-mechanic like me to test or even just look at without special tools. I REALLY appreciate your thoughts and patience! |
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Post by sall on Jul 25, 2017 17:08:57 GMT -6
Start by priming the fuel system first. Key on/engine off for three or four cycles and see if it consistently starts right up thereafter. If so check your fuel pressure. Well, you can check pressure anyways, but this will give you a clue if it is a delivery problem. You are looking for 48-55psi key on/engine off.
It does not sound like an ignition switch issue, but that is also super simple to check continuity with a multimeter once you remove the bulkhead connector from the firewall.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 8:41:26 GMT -6
Sall might be on to something. *knock on wood* Starting went better this last weekend. After turning the key to "run" for ~3 second/cycles then continuing to "start," there was little, if any, hesitation before the engine caught. Saturday's drives were all short and in town, Sunday was a couple short in town drives and a longer ~50 minute drive. The return trip on that 50 min drive had a slow start, but nothing compared to the previous weekend.
I don't have anyway to check the fuel pressure myself, but I'll add that to my ask list for my mechanic. Let's see how this goes this weekend...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 14:42:53 GMT -6
This last weekend was a near carbon copy to the one before; okay start after an ~3-cycle pause at "run."
Is this a form of normal for some Aurora owners or is this some indication of some underlying issue?
One change: the fuel gauge now moves between what I'm estimating to be the actual fuel level and Full as I drive, slowly rising and falling and rising and falling and so on.
I'm going on a trip for the next couple of weeks, so I won't be able to update on things for a while. Thank you all for all your input so far!!
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Post by sall on Aug 7, 2017 15:06:25 GMT -6
What I was referring to was to do that multiple times. Three for example then turn it over to start. However, if just once works and you are allowing the fuel system to prime and get starts consistently then I would certainly check your fuel pressure. You are looking for 48-55psi key on engine off(primed). Leave the gauge connected and if you get leak down after fifteen minutes or so you have a faulty injector(s) or bad check ball/valve in the fuel sender(pump).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 10:22:30 GMT -6
Updates:
8/26 - three starts, all fine.
8/27 - second of three starts was very slow, took 3-4 seconds to catch.
8/28 - second of three starts was about 2 seconds to catch.
This last Saturday (9/2) - the last three of four starts were slow, one was 4-5 seconds to catch, the other two were 2-3 seconds.
The issue seems to be getting worse. So I'll call my mechanic tomorrow (today being a holiday) and make an appointment.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and ideas on this. I'll be back hopefully with more info. I'd like to at least add to the knowledge base here and not be a complete waste of your time.
Happy Labor Day, ACNA
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Post by premiumV on Sept 11, 2017 9:57:18 GMT -6
You might consider replacing your fuel pressure regulator. It's relatively inexpensive and an easy job. It took care of my intermittent hard start problem going on about 3 years now.
My fuel gauge has always read like yours. 4~5 gallons used before it starts dropping from full. When it gets down to a little less than half it drops like a rock.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 9:06:40 GMT -6
@premiumv: Thank you, I will do that and post back. Although it might take while...
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aphex
Aurora Watcher
Posts: 50
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Post by aphex on Dec 13, 2017 22:04:20 GMT -6
Been keeping my beauty running for little to nothing spent into it. Problem after problem resolved with minor things like added wiring, rubber boot connectors, etc.
In this case I would make sure you always have enough oil as these engines can eat up some in between oil changes. If it's in the 40's or lower make sure you're running some 5W-30 for these colder startups.
Most importantly, make sure you roll the key forward and wait for the 5 dings! This allows all electric pumps and sensors to come online, including fuel components (pump, etc) - from what I've been told.
When you start up make sure to hold the key forward long enough as you're starting - and even pump the gas one time if nothing seems to be happening. In my hard start problems this is something I had to do a couple times just to get her to start. Typically on colder mornings and I wasn't running any 5w-30 or rolling the key and waiting. If it has been a minute since your last oil change make sure to add enough! Your car is thirsty.
Hopefully these steps help resolve your situation without spending much $$$.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 9:13:22 GMT -6
Sorry for the enormous delay in posting again regarding my slow start issue. Update: Took it to the mechanic last week and specifically asked them to check the fuel pressure regulator, it checked out fine. They looked at and replaced the fuel filter as it was pretty clogged. The start is somewhat improved as in it's more like what I would consider a regulator start-up time more often, but I've still had a few of the slow 4 sec + starts. aphex: thanks for your input. I'm pretty religious about checking the oil as my last vehicle seemed to be more sieve than engine. I'm really pleased with how well my Aurora keeps the oil so far (knock-on-wood). But you're right, always a good thing to keep an eye on and I will continue to do so. I have no idea what the "5 dings" are. I couldn't find anything online. I've tried turning the key into the on position and waiting there for a second or two, then continue turning it to start, but it will still sometimes start slow. What am I missing? One last question, is there a way to get email notifications of replies made to this topic/thread? I'm not finding anything in my account settings. Anyway, seriously thank you all for your time, ideas and patience. |
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RCA1186
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Rob
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Post by RCA1186 on May 16, 2018 10:31:29 GMT -6
One last question, is there a way to get email notifications of replies made to this topic/thread? I'm not finding anything in my account settings. Anyway, seriously thank you all for your time, ideas and patience. Profile>Edit Profile>Notifications Where it says "Participated "A thread you have participated in is updated"" click on the pulldown under the "email" column and set it to whatever setting you would like. Works for any of the other options too of course (new thread, direct message, etc). You can also manage the notifications you receive on just the forum with the check boxes under the "forum" column next to each subject. If this still isn't working be sure you are looking at the correct email associated with your username/profile. |
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Post by wfooshee on May 30, 2018 18:02:18 GMT -6
Mine was sluggish to start, then the starter solenoid actually gave out (grinding noise while cranking.) Replaced the starter for that, and cranking was 3000 percent better, too!
They're not cheap, but you could use a clamp-on DC ammeter to measure the current draw while cranking. i can't actually finish this thought for you as I have no idea what it should draw, maybe someone else knows and can help. Anyway, excessive current draw during cranking is a sure sign of a dying starter.
Does it behave worse when starting hot, like right after a gas stop?
Not Aurora-related, but I went through that on my motorcycle. That starter was supposed to draw about 80 amps while cranking. Mine pegged the meter I borrowed, which had a 160-amp scale.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 9:03:43 GMT -6
@rca1186 - I think I got it, thanks! wfooshee - I was really hoping it wouldn't be the starter, but I think you're right that it's definitely worth checking if it could potentially be the problem. It may be a little while yet (unless it goes sooner rather than later), but I'll have it checked out and report back. Thank you! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 16:51:12 GMT -6
Hi All,
Took the Aurora into the mechanic this morning to have another look at this sluggish start/extended crank issue again, but more immediately, a significant coolant leak. To fix the leak, it will cost about $1K. That plus whatever I end up throwing into the unknown extended crank issue is more than I care to spend on it at this point. So my plan at this point is to sell/trade-as-is. So I think you can consider this issue thread at an end. I apologize for the unsatisfactory and sad conclusion.
Still, I want to thank you all for your time and considerations.
Keep well.
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aphex
Aurora Watcher
Posts: 50
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Post by aphex on Jul 25, 2018 20:45:30 GMT -6
Still got the car? I can't believe I never mentioned ethanol in my original post!
Run a few tanks of pure gasoline that has NO ethanol through any car with mysterious start issues. That's pretty much all I run my cars on and I've see start up issues over and over with low grade gasoline leaving ethanol buildup! You should almost completely resolve your issue within 3 tanks but won't see the difference until it is almost completely cleared up from the lines. Just resolved a bad start up issue over the last two weeks by filling two tanks of non ethanol into the tank of an 02 buick regal. You could hear it trying to crank over and over but didn't seem to get fuel or spark. Constantly having to pump the peddle to get a start but now starts up first turn without moving my foot at all, just took some better gas. Also had an 05 deville towed to a shop because of a crazy screaming hard start that sounded like the engine was going to explode. Ended up being 1/8 tank of ethanol was all that was left in the tank and the engine was hitting redline on the start up. Filled up the tank and the deville started right up. Ethanol is garbage imho - hopefully this helps someone.
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