|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 15, 2005 21:06:41 GMT -6
I jsut got done installing the Infinity Kapp Perfects in my front doors. I started this task at 2:30Pm and I just now got done at 11:00 PM! This was the most difficult car I've done so far needless to say. Nothing was working correctly. Anyways, I have them installed. I spliced into the speaker wires at kick panels on each side and ran wire from the stock deck to a Line Output Converter. From there I ran RCA's back to my 150Wx2 RMS amp. From there I ran new speaker wire up the driver's side of the car, then split them into each individual door. Getting wire into the boot between the car and door was a real PAIN!!!! Speaker installation was pretty straight forward. Now, here's the funny part. I turn the radio on and these speakers who retail at $600 sound no better than the damn stock speakers!! The highs are extremely harsh and the bass distorts heavily. I just cannot believe this. After that work that took my entire day the speakers aren't even any better sounding then stock. I don't see how that's even possible though because I"ve had Infinity speakers before and even the cheap ones sounded so much better than these. I'm thinking now the culprit is the stock cd player... argh. When will this end. So has anybody else used aftermarket high end speakers and the stock cd player? DId your speakers sound horrible as well? I don't think the speakers are bad because both channels sound identical. I have the amp's gain set to less than 20% too. the LOC's gain is set to 10%. crossover installed: Infinity VS stock speakers Infinity woofer in door panel:
|
|
urbandaddy
Aurora Watcher
University of Calgary Mens Soccer
|
Post by urbandaddy on Jun 15, 2005 21:21:50 GMT -6
You need to change the deck. A aftermarket deck will make your stock speakers sound better, but your stock deck wont make aftermarket speakers sound better.
|
|
|
Post by Letitroll98 on Jun 15, 2005 21:41:38 GMT -6
Two things I can think of. One relates to "I spliced into the speaker wires at kick panels on each side". Slicing wires in high quality speaker installations is never recommended, you're introducing a lot of signal reflection interference. Did you mean that you hard wired into the crossover?
Second is that nothing may be wrong. High quality speakers need to be broken in for quite some time before sounding up to their potencial, up to 100 hours in not uncommon. Do they sound thin and screachy? What is the nature of the bass distortion? This would not be normal if you're banging against the stops or you're getting a resonance.
Do you have a test CD? Like Stereophile's Test CD set or the XLO/Reference Recordings Test/Burn-In CD. These are very helpful in diagnosing problems and maximizing the setup of your system.
The more I think about it, I would guess something is not hooked up correctly. Since it's both speakers, I think upstream of the speakers. Wiring to the speakers maybe, but I think you've done this correctly as you routed the wires on the drivers side opposite the power cables on the passenger side. Recheck the LOC and Amp hookups and settings. Have you been running this set up previously?
The CD player is just fine. The MASH chipset is not the highest end, but you wouldn't get horrible, distorted sound from it. Did you have distorted sound before? All in all, I think you'll find the problem is some simple, stupid thing. Finding it may not be simple stupid.
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 15, 2005 21:48:52 GMT -6
guess I should clarify how they sound bad. The speakers don't distort horrible, the bass just makes a lot of 'farting' noises because the stock headunit has such overexaggated bass boost all the time. The classic doesn't have that problem. also, the highs are very ear peircing and shrill. It's not a sound like a bad connection but it sounds like the source of the sound itself (the stock cd player) is not good. When I tested out my pioneer on the stock speakers the highs were smoother and the bass was not booming. With the stock cd player the speakers are driven into distortion very easily and at medium to high volumes the highs become very shrill. I think just for the hell of it I'll try the pioneer out again and see how they sound with that deck in there. I was really hoping to keep the stock deck in the car for a stealth look but I guess that doesn't always work out.
|
|
|
Post by macadamiaman on Jun 15, 2005 23:29:24 GMT -6
Stock deck replacement sounds like the problem, I'm 99% sure..
The other thing I'm worried about is that I know the doors in the Aurora are very shallow - those infinitis want to push a lot of air but are not able to in such the small area... you'll never hear them to their full potential if you keep them in the doors, oh well. Am I wrong?
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 16, 2005 8:00:22 GMT -6
mac, you are completely right. Those infinities are pushing TONS of air. I can feel the breeze from them everytime there's a bass note. I can also feel air escaping from around the door handle, power windows switch, and around the perimiter of the door panel! These puppies really MOVE! I think I'm going to move them over to a smaller, 80Wx2 RMS amp because it has a highpass filter. I'll cross them over around 100 HZ so I don't have to worry about the bass distorting them. And it looks like I say fairwell to the crappy stock cd player today. It's unfortunate, I wanted a stock look.
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 16, 2005 8:43:23 GMT -6
alright, I swapped the pioneer in just to test and see how the speakers sound and the ear piercing highs are still there, but there is absolutely no distortion now. You can crank them and there is absolutely no problem with bass, even with the headunit's bass set on max. I think I'm going to tear the door panels apart *again* and set the tweeter to -4 DB on the crossover. There are options for -4, 0, and +3 DB for the tweeter. It's on 0 DB gain right now. I think that'll be going down to -4 for now. I would really like to give these speakers some more 'room' to breath because that water sheild is directly behind the speaker.. I'm sure these speakers require more air than what they're getting like mac said. I don't want to take the chance of introducing water into the car though by cutting a hole in that water sheild.
|
|
|
Post by Aurora40 on Jun 16, 2005 9:41:23 GMT -6
Hey Dan, have you listened to the Bose unit? Just curious. I'm not much of an audiophile, but I do like clean sound. I like the Bose unit in that the highs and lows don't seem unnatural or overpowering. I was just wondering how you'd compare it to your Infiniti/Pioneer set up. And I was wondering if you think you'd replace it if your car had come with Bose? I've had Bose in both Corvettes too, and always thought they sounded nice. I replaced the headunit in my '87 to get a CD player, but kept the speakers. I'm sure they aren't the best system around, but I always thought they were nice enough, and the Bose option was only $500. Is it possible to get an aftermarket headunit that retains the Speed Compensated Volume? I really love that feature as I drive with the windows open often. I love how the volume drops when I slow down instead of blasting me.
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 16, 2005 11:03:11 GMT -6
our 00 Bonneville has the Bose setup in it which is the same as the aurora's. It has the 6 3/4" speakers in the front doors, 1" tweeters in the front door sail panels, 5.25" speakers in the rear doors, and 6x9's for bass. Her setup is very clean sounding as well. It's good enough that if my car came with bose I wouldnt' of bothered to change it more than likely. There is absolutely no distortion on her stereo and it sounds quite nice. I could stand to have a little bit more low end extension in the sound but for stock it's pretty good. Much better than the Delco sound systems. As is right now the Infinities sound quite a bit better than the bose in the BOnneville. Over time as the speakers break in the gap should increase even more. I've been reading reviews for teh Infinities and apparently they take up to a month to break in and until they do break in they sound pretty miserable. I can't wait until they're running to their full potential. I gotta get back outside to the Aurora though. The pioneer cd player's hanging out of the dash, I have no kick panels installed, bottom of dash is off, all trim along the side of the car is gone, rear seat is out, rear deck is out and both door panels up front. lol. The entire interior is taken apart at the moment. I estimate I have about 6 MROE hours left to get that cd player to fit (the dash isn't very deep) and to tidey up wiring in the trunk. oh... joy. lol
|
|
|
Post by Letitroll98 on Jun 16, 2005 13:18:42 GMT -6
Hey Dan, have you listened to the Bose unit? Just curious. I'm not much of an audiophile, but I do like clean sound. I like the Bose unit in that the highs and lows don't seem unnatural or overpowering. Just to add one point here. Although Bose is considered mass market by high end audio, you do get the advantage of the Bose team spending a certain amount of time tweeking the system to each car model. This can do wonders for even moderate gear as interaction with the listening environment is one of the most important factors in achieving good sound.
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 16, 2005 19:44:13 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by macadamiaman on Jun 16, 2005 22:35:18 GMT -6
Some nice looking speakers, serious looking, sounding too I'm sure - nice taste Dan!
How hard was it to install the 6x9's in the back? I have heard horror stories of installing speakers in the rear deck on the 2nd gens.. though I don't plan on it myself, if you say it was very very easy I might consider it.
I don't really like the look of that amp rack personally. But I suppose it's very functional. It would have been nicer to mount them to the rear of the back seat (where that black plastic is), or perhaps in the area where the CD changer would be, or something like that... but very nice work overall! Do the 6x9's make a big difference? I know the stock ones weren't so bad with bass, but these must be AWESOME - they can push a lot of air back there.
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 16, 2005 22:49:11 GMT -6
I originally was going to mount the amps where you suggested but there simply wasn't enough room. Behind the back seat there are only two small cross beams that go from the center of the car, to the outside. the distance between those bars and that black plastic is more than 2". It wouldnt' be possible to mount the amp there. It's hard to tell but the amp on the left is 16" long so it's hard to fit pretty much anywhere beacuse of it's length. The weight if I had to guess for both amps combined would be upwards of 20 pounds. They're pretty heavy. I chose that location because it's out of the way and hwen you open the trunk you can't see it. You have to crouch down to see the rack. I plan on making something to go in front of the rack so you can't see the amps at all. That'll happen another day though. The 6x9's aren't too hard to get out as long as you know how to. I didn't, so it was a real pain! You have to remove the bottom seat cushion first, then the rear seat back. I had real troubles with teh back seat because every other car I've ever had, the backseat came out by pulling up on the seat after undoing the seat belt bolts.. with teh aurora you have to slide a screwdriver down behind teh seat and there are 4 clips you have to depress to get the seatback to release from the trunk. It was a major PITA! after that you have to undo the seatbelts from the rear deck (slide the belt down and out of the plastic beauty rings) undo two push pins then pull up/out at the same time. There's a black rubber for sound deadening that will be very sticky and the rear deck will feel like it won't come out. Just make sure to push up as you pull straight out. It's hard to pull out. Make sure you get all that black rubber back where it was before or you might have a rattling problem later on. But yes, the Infinity 6x9's are worlds better than the stockers. The bass hits very hard. Sounds similar to a small subwoofer almost at times. lol. I don't think it'd sound very good without an amp though. I'm running 80Wx2RMS to my 6x9's. Unamped i think the stock speakers would probably be best running on the stock deck.
|
|
|
Post by macadamiaman on Jun 16, 2005 23:07:20 GMT -6
Covering up the rack with some carpet in the front would be nicer actually.. It would look more fit-in I guess. Would it have been impossible to mount the amps on the plastic itself or would that be too thin/weak to hold them? That does sound verrry hard to get to the 6x9's, no chance for me I forget if you were satisfied or not with the subwoofer you installed already (to the factory headunit).. I'm finally getting around to putting in my JL subs (well, a week or two, I try to tell myself), so I'm wondering how they're going to do with the factory system, just in terms of quality, not power.
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 16, 2005 23:30:53 GMT -6
I'm very satisfied with the Infinity Basslink. Just be full warned though that the bass will be overpowering. Even with the bass set to 0 at low volumes (3 full bars on the stock cd player) the bass was at max volume, then as you turned it up louder the bass got quieter and the treble got higher. This is one of the reasons I really wanted to get rid of the stock cd player. The overexagerated bass drove me nuts.
|
|
|
Post by macadamiaman on Jun 16, 2005 23:38:40 GMT -6
That is kinda what I remember. I think the overexaggerated bass will be fun. I don't listen to loud music that often, really just like bass a lot! I'll report back....
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 17, 2005 15:34:33 GMT -6
alright, I got done with the final touches including quieting down some alternator noise I had in the rear speakers (not eliminate unfortunately) and enclosing everything. I used sturdy cardboard and glued the carpet to it for a lightweight material. It turned out pretty great! The pictures make it not look the hottest but in person it looks a lot better. Basslink before: Basslink when side panel of enclosure is lifted. The side can easily be opened to make adjustments to the basslink. the back is not enclosed at all, nor the side near the back seat because the fins for the heat sink are there. it hides the wires nicely and almost looks stock in person. there are cutouts for the cargo net, and a cutout for the trunk hinge to fit into. I also enclosed the amp rack so the amps cannot be seen, or any wiring. This is the look I was going for because I'd rather not show off what I have. To the average person it would look stock as well I believe.. I'm glad to be finally done! 3 full days of work.. whew. It was worth it I guess. What you guys think?
|
|
scottydl
Super Moderator
There's nothin' like an American V-8...
Posts: 7,373
Staff Member
|
Post by scottydl on Jun 18, 2005 4:58:27 GMT -6
I also enclosed the amp rack so the amps cannot be seen, or any wiring. This is the look I was going for because I'd rather not show off what I have. To the average person it would look stock as well I believe.. This is the best part of the entire install, IMO. Nicely done Dan!! I don't think I have 3 days of patience to go through all that on my Aurora tho...
|
|
|
Post by macadamiaman on Jun 18, 2005 6:40:25 GMT -6
I agree. Beautifully done.
|
|
|
Post by 95mushroom on Jun 18, 2005 14:52:05 GMT -6
Sorry I'm jumping in late...
The Kappa Perfects are 100 watts rms so you're slightly overpowering them.
Other thing to consider is that the Kappa Perfect's have titanium tweeters instead of the usual silk tweeters. Ti's are a lot more potent then silks...
Where do the tweeters mount in the 2nd Gen? Classics have two options, in the upper part of the doors and down in the footwell. You might want to consider moving them further away.
|
|
|
Post by 95mushroom on Jun 18, 2005 15:15:59 GMT -6
I agree. Beautifully done. Oh yea, page 2... Ditto, nice install job! Very clean. I originally wanted a hidden setup but that obivously didn't happen...
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 18, 2005 23:08:37 GMT -6
you can see the woofer and tweeter positions in this picture. If you can't see it, the tweeter is mounted in the sail panel (panel opposite the mirror.) I think part of the problem is that the woofers fire away from the passengers. I need some kind of angled bracket to angle the woofers toward me. That should make it sound worlds better. I think that is a big factor of why the sound doesn't impress me so much. With the doors opened it sounds just awesome and flawless. Close the doors and it's another story. Stupid Oldsmobile designers. Why in the world would you design the door so that the woofers fire away from you! stupid stupid stupid. *shakes head*
|
|
|
Post by stevensolds on Jun 18, 2005 23:15:30 GMT -6
AWESOME JOB DAN! You tackled that whole thing too. Very professional looking...and sounding too im sure. I wish i could hear it. I am getting pissed all the time with my stock setup...thats why i am driving my dads jaguar a lot now.
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 18, 2005 23:20:56 GMT -6
AWESOME JOB DAN! You tackled that whole thing too. Very professional looking...and sounding too im sure. I wish i could hear it. I am getting pissed all the time with my stock setup...thats why i am driving my dads jaguar a lot now. Thanks man. The biggest factor is time. It took me three full days to do all this remember. But, Houston, we have a problem! apparently my amp rack (nearly 30 pounds worth with the amps) is too much weight for the rear deck. I'm getting a thud over large bumps. Seems as though the shock of the bump with the extra added weight is making the rear deck flex a little perhaps. I'll have to investigate somewhat. There are 2 bolts on the bottom of the rear deck that you can see from the trunk. The bulk of the weight is supported by these two bolts.. I don't know what they're for, but apparently it's enough stress from the weight that I get the thudding upon hard bumps. Something will need to be done about that.
|
|
scottydl
Super Moderator
There's nothin' like an American V-8...
Posts: 7,373
Staff Member
|
Post by scottydl on Jun 18, 2005 23:45:09 GMT -6
I think part of the problem is that the woofers fire away from the passengers. I need some kind of angled bracket to angle the woofers toward me. That should make it sound worlds better. I think that is a big factor of why the sound doesn't impress me so much. With the doors opened it sounds just awesome and flawless. Close the doors and it's another story. Dan, I have seen kick panel mounted speakers wells that you can buy and install in place of (or in addition to) the factory door speakers. They are aftermarket, but come in a variety of colors to match your interior and look stock. I'll see if I can find the company that makes those... Edit: Q-forms makes them. Crutchfield and TheZeb.com both carry them... TheZeb - their photo looks like your interior color Crutchfiled - these are for a Dakota, but you get the idea
|
|
|
Post by Custom88 on Jun 19, 2005 0:02:06 GMT -6
Looks great, expensive though. I wish I was better at fabricating stuff and had better tools. alls I need to do is make a 1" thick MDF speaker spacer, and use a sander or grinder to sand it on an angle. They make 6x9 angle mounts, but no 6.5". It would have to be darn near perfect to get a good seal with the factory mount, and the speaker too. I'm going to play around with the tweeters a little bit to see if I can improve the sound somewhat. I have the tweeters aimed toward me. maybe if I aim them away from me for the time being it would be best like they were from the factory. as it is now I have the tweeters aimed right at me but that makes no sense if the woofer is firing so far off center from me. that's probably why the tweeters sound so harsh. lol.
|
|