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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 10, 2005 14:17:44 GMT -6
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 10, 2005 17:31:08 GMT -6
Unbelievable...yet fuel over there is a whole lot more expensive..what are they trying to achieve by this?
Good find bob.
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Post by Marc on Jun 10, 2005 19:18:12 GMT -6
Unbelievable...yet fuel over there is a whole lot more expensive..what are they trying to achieve by this? Good find bob. Robbing the driver blind!!! ________________ GM!!! BRING BACK OLDS!!!  |
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Post by Custom88 on Jun 10, 2005 23:54:49 GMT -6
it makes me sick to see what the world is turning into! Corporations and businesses are taking over. What ever happened to caring about people? Now, it's all about what's good for "the business." "the needs of the business." Sometimes I just want to say f*ck the business! Kind of like how during the depression so many lost their homes because they couldn't make payments on time. Even if they were only a few weeks late but were going to make a payment the only thing that mattered was the needs of the "bank." "We don't care if this destroys someone's life. the needs of the bank, the monster, are more important." I see it in business management myself. They are so concerned about saving money on labor that they work people until the breaking point, then they quit because they can't handle it. This isn't because they're lazy either, this is because they don't want to pay two people for the job of two people, so they force one to do it. I'm just sick of so many restrictions coming about to control the way people live. We're losing so many freedoms and the worse part is that many people do not even realize it! Sorry.. I have so much more to say but what difference is it going to make? I'll get off my soap box now. Now.. back on topic. sorry again!
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Post by macadamiaman on Jun 11, 2005 1:59:02 GMT -6
Dan, you're off track. Way off track! This is the government reducing freedoms. This is no news - the one goal of a government, in my opinion, is to restrict liberty, maintain order, etc.. just as you were applying to "the corporation," which has no business on civil rights and personal freedoms and whatnot. The government owns the roads and makes the laws and takes the taxes - none of those are private businesses.
Why are you so quick to hate capitalism? It's a wonderful thing, I think... especially in America...
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scottydl
Super Moderator 
There's nothin' like an American V-8...
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Post by scottydl on Jun 11, 2005 3:19:33 GMT -6
I agree with Dan to an extent... sure Capitalism is great (in theory) and can be very profitable for the country, but it is being abused. Our country's citizens have more consumer debt than at any other time in history. Banks and corporations own almost everything, and a small business owner can hardly survive. The value of the U.S. dollar is constantly dropping NOT because of "inflation" (a made-up term), but because U.S. currency is no longer based on actual gold and silver reserves owned by the country.
For instance, when a bank approves a new $200,000 mortgage nowadays, the bank doesn't actually have that money to lend out. It is a virtual sum, created out of thin air by Fannie Mae or whomever the loan goes through. They create the funds and pay someone with the money, which introduces that amount into circulating currency... but there is nothing behind it, so the *actual* dollar reduces in value and everything has to become more expensive to make up the difference! It is a very frustrating process, and frankly gives me little hope in the long-term U.S. economy. This system will eventually fail, because the greed of capitalism and a quick buck have taken over.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 11, 2005 8:01:27 GMT -6
Well, when you talk about the depression and seizing homes... You made a deal with someone to buy something, then you fall through on it. That's life. Life is sometimes rough, especially when you make bad decisions. Don't gamble if you aren't willing to lose. You are right, we are losing freedoms, though. But not to corporations. We are losing them to government regulation and nannying. Scott, I live in the same world as everyone else. Yet I have no consumer debt. Is it because I'm pissing on the little man, or because I don't make stupid decisions? Banks loaning money they don't have is not a new thing. You are greatly simplifying it. This happened before gold reserves too. Also, what's this have to do with taxes?  |
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Post by Custom88 on Jun 11, 2005 8:13:08 GMT -6
it makes me sick to see what the world is turning into! Corporations and businesses are taking over. What ever happened to caring about people? Now, it's all about what's good for "the business." "the needs of the business." Sometimes I just want to say f*ck the business! Kind of like how during the depression so many lost their homes because they couldn't make payments on time. Even if they were only a few weeks late but were going to make a payment the only thing that mattered was the needs of the "bank." "We don't care if this destroys someone's life. the needs of the bank, the monster, are more important." I see it in business management myself. They are so concerned about saving money on labor that they work people until the breaking point, then they quit because they can't handle it. This isn't because they're lazy either, this is because they don't want to pay two people for the job of two people, so they force one to do it. I'm just sick of so many restrictions coming about to control the way people live. We're losing so many freedoms and the worse part is that many people do not even realize it! Sorry.. I have so much more to say but what difference is it going to make? I'll get off my soap box now. Now.. back on topic. sorry again! whew. that was my bad night at working showing through. Sorry everyone. lol. I'm feeling a little more upspirited today. ;D |
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Post by macadamiaman on Jun 11, 2005 9:06:32 GMT -6
Yet again you're making all these connections to private businesses and whatnot... what on earth has that got to do with the levying of taxes by a government? Am I wrong in assuming that it's completely irrelevant? Now I forget what the topic was anyway... oh well
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 11, 2005 9:40:38 GMT -6
whew. that was my bad night at working showing through. Sorry everyone. lol. I'm feeling a little more upspirited today. ;D Hey man, we all feel like the world is going down the crapper sometimes. And I suppose slowly it is. But it doesn't have to happen today. As long as there are decent hardworking people out there like you and I, how bad can things get? I have a lot of faith in the average American to do what is right for them and their family, and to be responsible for their actions. |
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scottydl
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Post by scottydl on Jun 12, 2005 4:17:01 GMT -6
Scott, I live in the same world as everyone else. Yet I have no consumer debt. I am greatly impressed by this (really)! You are truly in the minority. I'm guessing you fall into this category because you have made wise financial decisions, and have a well-paying occupation that allows you to purchase "wants" without worrying about debt. I try to do the former, and hope to achieve the latter someday. (Note: my terminology was probably lacking when I mentioned "consumer debt"... I am referring to any kind of popular loan, including car loans and home mortgages). I'm just discouraged (and therefore cynical) about the way the U.S. maintains its system of currency. I think it's failing, but nobody wants to admit it. The national deficit is always increasing, nearing 8 trillion dollars currently. I don't think any one person can even imagine that amount of money. Unless things change in the long-run, the dollar will become as useless in the future as the penny is today. It's saddening. And this tangent has nothing to do with taxes or the original topic of this post.  So let me get it back on track by saying, uh, yeah paying $2 a mile would really suck! ;D But it's doubtful that a measure that drastic would never be suddenly implemented in the UK, or anti-government chaos would surely result. Having GPS transmitters in every vehicle (to track its movement) is somewhat of a scary thought, but that's where the U.S. is headed too with Onstar and modern cell phone technology. |
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 12, 2005 6:26:21 GMT -6
(Note: my terminology was probably lacking when I mentioned "consumer debt"... I am referring to any kind of popular loan, including car loans and home mortgages). Wow, so you think it is a sign of impending doom if more people have home mortgages?? Buying a home, if done properly, can be an excellent investment. There are tax advantages, and it's an investment you can use while you are buying it. You have to live somewhere, you may as well try to play that the best way possible. Do you think it's bad when people take out a loan to start a business? Or when corporations issue bonds to fund growth? If you think any and all debt is terrible, what do you propose people do? Cobble shoes to trade for corn? Grow corn to trade for shoes? What's your utopian vision? |
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Post by JimW on Jun 12, 2005 8:33:45 GMT -6
There is good debt and there is bad debt. A car, credit cards, luxury items that we buy and pay monthly for is bad debt.
Good debt is a line of credit, mortgage etc. I don't refer to them as debt, but as wealth management (sorry, I'm an optimist).
Debt is all about management, and the fiscal in the United States is in a state of terrible management with no end in sight.
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Post by Letitroll98 on Jun 12, 2005 11:32:56 GMT -6
A couple of things here gents. 40 is correct about mortgages because they are indebtedness for "real property", something usually appreciating in value and benefiting the general economy. A loan for business doesn't demand an inclusion for real property, but the lender and lendee both hope it will generate benefits beyond the repayment of the loan in jobs created, goods produced, etc. The next level down would be a loan for durable goods (goods lasting more than one year) like cars or refrigerators. With the worst type of debt being consumer credit card debt for non-durable goods and services like vacations and such. When referring to consumer debt, it usually means purchases for intangibles and non-durable goods with credit cards and unsecured loans.
Back on track with the original post, England is a very different country with a rail system unlike anything we have here. Goods are not shipped by truck, they are shipped by rail with the average rail shipment traveling 14.2 miles. People don't travel by car as a necessity for work, they pop on the public rails. Travel by car is only a luxury as there are many alternatives everywhere except outlying areas. Cars are used as occasional travel options. So the effect of that legislation is not like it would be here in the US.
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 12, 2005 18:13:23 GMT -6
Good point Danny, i hadn't thought about that. Most people in europe take the rails to work
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scottydl
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Post by scottydl on Jun 13, 2005 2:49:06 GMT -6
Debt is all about management, and the fiscal in the United States is in a state of terrible management with no end in sight. This is my point (in the off-topic part of this thread). Thanks for putting it so plainly Jim... I needed a non-American to sum that up. Sure mortgages, business loans, and lines of credit can be wise and profitable; but MOST people end up paying away any benefit in interest, multiple unneeded refinances, and/or foreclosures. Bob, I know you are not one of those people, and for that you are commended. But corn-bartering comments aside, our country's (and its citizen's) debt accumulation is slowly and steadily getting worse. I'm no economist, but that can't be good in the long run. |
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So let me get it back on track by saying, uh, yeah paying $2 a mile would really suck! ;D But it's doubtful that a measure that drastic would never be suddenly implemented in the UK, or anti-government chaos would surely result. Having GPS transmitters in every vehicle (to track its movement) is somewhat of a scary thought, but that's where the U.S. is headed too with Onstar and modern cell phone technology.
