bobsblue95
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Post by bobsblue95 on Sept 8, 2011 14:54:22 GMT -6
Check power on the IGN1 and IGN3 fuses, also check resistance from the battery positive terminal to the other end of the (smaller) positive cable at the rear fuse block. I think it might be that positive cable or it's connection to the fuse block.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 8, 2011 16:09:50 GMT -6
Have not had BCM reset, but did try a different one. Also tried switching most of the other modules. Even hvac and whatever I could get to, with no change. Switched them back to the original ones.
bobsblue:
Checked the ign1 and 3 both fuses are good, checked them twice. Checked ohms from battery to the connector by the fuse box, and seems to be perfect, same as if I was touching the tester leads together. Checked continuity on it also with a good reading there (beeped). I am a little new with the electronic testing, but with you guys and youtube, I am learning as I go.
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Post by nelson480 on Sept 8, 2011 16:19:54 GMT -6
Wont a different BCM set off the security again?
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 8, 2011 20:04:26 GMT -6
I am not sure about the BCM, but I will check on that. I have the original hooked back up but had a spare hooked up on the side for a while.
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Post by clutch1 on Sept 8, 2011 20:38:56 GMT -6
Not really that it matters right now, but did the theft module you installed match your key's resistance? If not, you need to bypass the VATs with the resistor that matches the NEW theft module. Although I can tell you that your original one most likely wasn't the issue because the crank was operational. Unless, of course, the original one shorted internally (the crank enable only is an internal switch that grounds the crank relay coil to allow it to operate. Best bet right now is to narrow down all the things that aren't operating and start checking powers/ grounds. Use this for wiring diagrams: www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19347&highlight=bcm+wiringWish I was in MO, I wanna work on this one, lol.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 8, 2011 21:08:17 GMT -6
Wish you were here, too. Thanks, for sure. I am going to put the old theft module back in, I think it's ok, like you said. I also switched a few of the starter related relays and both the ign1, and 3 fuse. Then I pulled both of the under seat fuse boxes up and checked for any sign of loose wiring or problems. Then looked all over the under rear seat wiring for any kind of problems, but did not see anything obvious. It feels like knowing the answer to a question but not remembering it. The answer feel so close.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2011 1:52:55 GMT -6
You still have a parts aurora, right? Here's an idea. Ensure that both cars share the same fuses...and just swap the fuse boxes underneath the back seat. At this point in time I would say its safe to try ANYTHING!
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Post by nelson480 on Sept 9, 2011 3:47:43 GMT -6
SO the core problem here, is no spark and no fuel pumping?
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Post by robaurora01 on Sept 9, 2011 4:38:23 GMT -6
id be checking the grounds
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bobsblue95
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Post by bobsblue95 on Sept 9, 2011 6:00:51 GMT -6
You still have a parts aurora, right? Here's an idea. Ensure that both cars share the same fuses...and just swap the fuse boxes underneath the back seat. At this point in time I would say its safe to try ANYTHING! *Just* swap the fuse box... lol Knowing how much fun it was just swapping the single Bose fuse wire from one car to another, this just struck me funny. I'm in a mood this morning though. If you have 12 volts at IGN1 and IGN3, but no power at the above mentioned fuses, next test is continuity from rear fuse box to ignition switch. Check for 12v on red wire at D2 (ign switch connector plugged in), then with key in Run, check for 12v on Pink, Orange, Yellow and Brown wires. If you pull the connector, you can test for continuity (key in Run) from D2 to C6 and D6, then check from D5 to C1 and C5. Have you tried a different ignition switch? We're close Randy, we'll figure this out.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 9, 2011 6:47:34 GMT -6
First off, I really appreciate the help you guys are giving me. ACNA is the best!! I thought it was funny, too, especially after getting a good look at the fuse boxes yesterday. That would be a monster job in itself, lol. Appreciate the idea, though, anything helps at this moment. Nelson, no fuel, no spark, starter worked until about a week ago, but does not anymore(works when jumped), no DIC, no dummy lights, no obd2, no turn signals. Probably a couple more, I will post if I recall. Rob, have cleaned the grounds thoroughly and added an extra one. Had a couple more hooked up at one point, but there was no change. I also have a friend with a '97 Cadillac in his shop, exact same problem, he has installed a new computer and ignition with no change. Mine might be a different problem, but just wanted to put that out there. bobsblue, I really appreciate your help. I will be at the shop shortly and will work on checking those ignition wires out. Thanks!!
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bobsblue95
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Post by bobsblue95 on Sept 9, 2011 7:34:36 GMT -6
Always glad when I can help... electrical problems can be a real pain, but they are kind of my specialty. The good thing here is that it's not intermittent. I have downloaded the 97 power distribution diagrams from Rob's link (awesome btw!) so we should be able to track this down logically.
*also* just to clarify, you tested IGN1 and IGN3 fuses but didn't say if there was 12 volts present. I assume there is, just want to be sure. *another also* this is the IGN1 and IGN3 fuses in the back. I see there are IGN1 and IGN3 in the I/P fuse block as well (good thinking GM!), but they are not the ones I'm referring to.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 9, 2011 8:31:56 GMT -6
I have not tried a new ignition switch yet. That was the idea I had before I got the new theft module. I was going to switch the ign switch, computer, and theft module from my parts car, all together.
It was the under seat ign fuses I was checking, they were reading a little over 12.5 volts.
About to go work on it now, I have you directions printed up so I don't have to run back and forth. lol I can't get the library link to work, when I enter the card number and hit the button nothing happens, but I do have the factory service manuals here.
First I am going to switch the old theft module back in and then I will start the ign wire checks.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 9, 2011 8:49:17 GMT -6
Ok, got theft module switched back. I then pulled the cover right below the steering column, I have 2 ign looking wires that are broken and hanging. They are 2 little white wires in a rubber sleeve, and they look like they have been grounding out. I am not going to get excited yet, but I hope this is the problem. I'm on it, fingers crossed!!
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 9, 2011 9:00:01 GMT -6
Ok, never mind. I found where there other end of the cut wire is. It is spliced to another wire. I followed the wires, and you won't believe this, there is whole other ignition switch zip tied in there. It is all black taped together and the key is in it, too. Some kind of cave man vats bypass, maybe? lol I am going to check it out a little better, good stuff, lol. Back to testing the wires.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2011 9:10:50 GMT -6
Ok, never mind. I found where there other end of the cut wire is. It is spliced to another wire. I followed the wires, and you won't believe this, there is whole other ignition switch zip tied in there. It is all black taped together and the key is in it, too. Some kind of cave man vats bypass, maybe? lol I am going to check it out a little better, good stuff, lol. Back to testing the wires. ya know, randy! I would just go ahead and assume its the fuses...and just replace the fuse boxes. But seriously, I completely forgot that I had this same problem with one of my thunderbirds. Mind you it was a 92 so it didnt have half the technology our auroras do. But it was the ignition cylinder. You already found a cave man like setup. I say, rip it out! (Not literally...) and throw in your parts aurora's ignition cylinder. I know they sold a rebuild kit for the thunderbirds ignition. Might be abl to track one down for the Aurora.
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bobsblue95
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Post by bobsblue95 on Sept 9, 2011 10:19:59 GMT -6
The double wire in a sleeve is the vats line to the ignition tumbler. The tumbler is separate from the switch itself, so you don't have to change keys. Sounds like you should replace the switch though, hopefully the parts car has a good one.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 9, 2011 11:32:37 GMT -6
Alright, I will work on replacing that switch. My parts car ran fine when I parked it, so it should be good.
That extra ignition appears to have a new key in it, but it won't switch on. It has different ohms then the ignition installed in the column, so I will leave it be for now.
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bobsblue95
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Post by bobsblue95 on Sept 9, 2011 11:44:11 GMT -6
That's just wierd, they used an entire key and tumbler as a vats bypass. lol I would guess that's the only electrical thing connected to the extra key/tumbler, not another actual ignition switch. That key is what your car expects electrically (vats), but apparently it's wrong mechanically.
We can eliminate that if you want, tell me your key's resistance and the correct key resistance and I can tell you what to do to compensate to allow the key you want to work with vats. Unless you just want to bypass it again, but I like that extra security, however small it may be. Even if you bypass it, just use a resistor, not a whole tumbler...? That connection never gets cleaned by removal/insertion, so that may be the real issue here.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 9, 2011 14:39:10 GMT -6
It was the switch!!
I really appreciate the help, you guys helped me from giving up on it, too.
I am leaving the extra ignition, I am going to see if it doesn't start when I pull the key. I think that would be pretty sweet. If I do decide to go with just one key, I may take you up on that offer.
I took pics when removing the switch from my parts car so I can do a writeup on it.
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Post by nelson480 on Sept 9, 2011 14:43:24 GMT -6
Lol i figured it had to be something security wise. but great job
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Post by dynamic1964 on Sept 9, 2011 14:45:46 GMT -6
Congratulations Randy. Good job!
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 9, 2011 15:23:42 GMT -6
I take no credit, I was just the person doing the hands on work. lol Thanks, though. I learned a lot, I had not had experience with the ign switch before. I also got a little hands on experience with about every electrical part on my car.
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Post by dynamic1964 on Sept 9, 2011 15:44:30 GMT -6
I take no credit, I was just the person doing the hands on work. lol Thanks, though. I learned a lot, I had not had experience with the ign switch before. I also got a little hands on experience with about every electrical part on my car. But you didn't give up and that´s a strength, especially when it doesn't want to start. Car electricity is fun and it has been my specialty since I bought an Intrigue! lol I´m happy for all friends who helping me and others here on ACNA. Its like a big family and we all love to help each other, whatever they may be.
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Post by ntrenn on Sept 9, 2011 19:05:32 GMT -6
Way to stick with it Randy...
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 9, 2011 19:18:09 GMT -6
That's true, it's a great place. I now have dash lights, too, and everything else is working fine. I did not have dash lights before the car broke down. Went for a 6 mile test drive, with no problems. When I remove the key from the extra ignition the car does not start, I now have it mounted so I can easily pull it if I want. I wonder if that new theft module ever registered with the car? I will mark it and add it to the pile. I also have a brand new body control module I bought at the dealer. Some one told me thats what caused the flashing lights, but it was the Light module. I LOVE MY AURORA!!
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Post by nelson480 on Sept 9, 2011 20:04:16 GMT -6
Glad you got it. Sometimes as a mechanic you gotta stick with it and think til you get it. I finally figured out the dim headlight situation on the Cavi. After cleaning the multifunction switch to no avail, i took the entire harness apart between the headlights and found the dead wire had a break in it. Ran a new wire between em and bam, works like new.
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bobsblue95
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Post by bobsblue95 on Sept 10, 2011 8:39:17 GMT -6
Awesome Randy! let me know the resistance of the two keys and I'll tell you how to correct the wiring for vats. Some say you can swap the resistor chip, but I couldn't get mine out and didn't want to risk damaging it.
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Sept 10, 2011 10:58:40 GMT -6
Excellent! She lives! I bet that 6 mile test drive was a glorious one.
By the way... Caveman bypass, or Randy with a few beers? haha. I'm not sure what the difference is. ;D Glad you figured it out, man!
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Sept 10, 2011 20:16:34 GMT -6
Magna steering is also working now, it has not worked for a very long time. Test drive did feel great, it's nice working close to home, too, and not racking up the miles. If I forgot installing an extra ignition into my car I must have been having a real good time, lol. It was like that when I bought it, I had noticed the extra wires a couple times but didn't investigate. Awesome Randy! let me know the resistance of the two keys and I'll tell you how to correct the wiring for vats. Some say you can swap the resistor chip, but I couldn't get mine out and didn't want to risk damaging it. I appreciate that, next time I am in there I will pull the key and check. I like having the hidden extra key, though, when I pull it, the car don't start. ;D I do have some extra old keys, I will try pulling the chip out and see what happens. Zach, I am still going to switch out those fuse boxes when I get a chance. lol
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