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Post by sall on Feb 25, 2013 18:53:47 GMT -6
Just curious for no reason really but have you considered an EGR delete? I found the block off plate today for about $3 vs fabricating one. Minimal performance gains and a cleaner intake/throttle body at the sake of what maybe 1 mpg? I am also devising a way to create an 'simulator' so the PCM doesn't know it's not there. Or one could probably run the simulator and leave EGR in place as long as it isn't stuck open. Again... just curious no other reason to post this here lol.
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Feb 25, 2013 19:09:00 GMT -6
This motor actually has turbos built into the exhaust already. I am considering adding a supercharger too, I think it would look sweet sticking sideways out of the hood. I am also getting a computer tune from ajxtcman/caleditor/pcmcalibrators, he says it will be done tomorrow. He said that a couple years ago, but I still believe him. Sounds about like every other 4.6 install I've seen on this board, so you must be doing something right!
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Post by shelbyracing on Feb 25, 2013 19:34:09 GMT -6
Just curious for no reason really but have you considered an EGR delete? I found the block off plate today for about $3 vs fabricating one. Minimal performance gains and a cleaner intake/throttle body at the sake of what maybe 1 mpg? I am also devising a way to create an 'simulator' so the PCM doesn't know it's not there. Or one could probably run the simulator and leave EGR in place as long as it isn't stuck open. Again... just curious no other reason to post this here lol. Your computer will know it isn't working via MAP sensor. It'd probably take away some serious highway mpg. I'll test it out and see but I'd think on highway (when you don't need much power to maintain speed) it displaces quite a bit of oxygen, I'm thinkin like 3-4 mpg. I wouldn't be willing to take a hit like that. But if I'm wrong and you're closer to right I'd get it deleted with a tune. When I go about getting it (hopefully really soon now ;D ;D). It's good you brought that up cause I need all this stuff tested so I have an intelligent tune devised.
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Post by sall on Feb 25, 2013 19:51:26 GMT -6
How will PCM know if EGR is not present when you are using a simulator? We can take it to PM not clutter RT thread up.
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Post by shelbyracing on Feb 25, 2013 20:03:29 GMT -6
If I'm not mistaken the MAP sensor is what determines if the EGR is opening by sensing a change in pressure when it opens. EDIT: That's not very clear, I mean I believe it determines if the EGR is operating correctly.
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Post by shelbyracing on Feb 25, 2013 20:18:45 GMT -6
I bet if you opened it to suck in some clean air it'd lean you out a little bit. (Just enough to get some power)
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 2, 2013 14:46:26 GMT -6
Installed a spare valve cover and original intake back on the engine, I was nervous having so many parts exposed, even with it being covered. Waiting on more part funds and better weather to start the lower block reseal. I am really considering using my spare subframe and painting it and making it look nice, it will take more time, but I am not on a schedule, although I can't wait to get the motor in. I am not going to worry about the trans work so much, now, I can swap all that out later, pretty easy. My trans I have now is great, no codes, I will swap the gears and change it to an autobahn when I find the proper computer for the right price that runs my car. I have this trans I bought, but I know nothing about it, it was worth it to me for the price to just be able to get the proper autobahn gearing out of it. I will keep it for a backup, for the next time I need one, I will try it out.
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Post by lanceslambos on Mar 3, 2013 7:24:03 GMT -6
with any luck you'll be busy soon enough with my nightmare.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 3, 2013 19:04:39 GMT -6
Yeah, I am busy alright, looking forward to it.
Got out to the pick and pull today, it opened here yesterday. 1 '97 Aurora and lucky me it is an Autobahn, so I bought the computer and I hope it runs my car, the computer looks new, it's a re-manufactured one.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 4, 2013 20:35:25 GMT -6
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Post by lanceslambos on Mar 5, 2013 8:07:22 GMT -6
valve covers look sweet!
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Post by lkraft92 on Mar 5, 2013 9:39:58 GMT -6
love the valve cover.
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Post by electrostatictommy on Mar 5, 2013 10:53:31 GMT -6
Installed a spare valve cover and original intake back on the engine, I was nervous having so many parts exposed, even with it being covered. Waiting on more part funds and better weather to start the lower block reseal. I am really considering using my spare subframe and painting it and making it look nice, it will take more time, but I am not on a schedule, although I can't wait to get the motor in. I am not going to worry about the trans work so much, now, I can swap all that out later, pretty easy. My trans I have now is great, no codes, I will swap the gears and change it to an autobahn when I find the proper computer for the right price that runs my car. I have this trans I bought, but I know nothing about it, it was worth it to me for the price to just be able to get the proper autobahn gearing out of it. I will keep it for a backup, for the next time I need one, I will try it out. When I did my transmission and engine rebuild I had the mechanic clean and repaint my subframe. Very happy with the result.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 6, 2013 7:20:00 GMT -6
Just curious for no reason really but have you considered an EGR delete? I found the block off plate today for about $3 vs fabricating one. Minimal performance gains and a cleaner intake/throttle body at the sake of what maybe 1 mpg? I am also devising a way to create an 'simulator' so the PCM doesn't know it's not there. Or one could probably run the simulator and leave EGR in place as long as it isn't stuck open. Again... just curious no other reason to post this here lol. Anything to make it faster, gas mileage does not matter to me. I like the idea of a cleaner throttle body even better. Thanks for the idea. I also have newer fuel injectors on my list, Cadillac, or Aurora. Subframe looks great! Thanks for the picture. I have some work ahead of me.
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Post by sempar on Mar 7, 2013 18:48:16 GMT -6
I seriously doubt you'll see any increase in performance or mileage. The EGR actually helps to decrease knock sensitivity, allowing the engine to run optimum timing under varying conditions.
As mentioned, the PCM does a check on the EGR by opening the EGR pintle during decelleration and noting the change in the MAP readings. If the desired change isn't noted, it's noted in a "count" register. If the total numbers exceed a certain value during one "trip", a P0403 code is set.
The PCM also monitors the pintle position continuously during operation, comparing it's commanded position to the return reading from the EGR valve. If it's different by more than 8 percent, code P0404 will be set, depending on other engine operating conditions.
Finally, the PCM monitors the pintle solenoid coil for open or short conditions. If the PCM detects less than 0.11 volts, code P0405 will be set.
Unlike some sensors, where you can substitute a resistance value to keep the PCM happy, this will require a bit more ingenuity.
John
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 7, 2013 20:26:00 GMT -6
Great post! Thanks for the info.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 8, 2013 7:26:16 GMT -6
A computer tune may also be in the works. I requested a higher rev limiter, no speed governor, and fans on at 180*, I also asked for help with the p0420 code. I ultimately left it up to the tuner on everything else, they know more about what they are doing than I do. I have been talking with Ion from madtuner, he contacted me here on the forum. Hopefully we will have dyno tests and real track 1/4 mile times by the end of the year. Everything will be fully documented and reviewed. madtuner.com/I am buying a set of Goodyear 245/50zr16s today, I can't really afford them, but I can't afford not to buy them for the price. Not a fan of Goodyear, but I have heard their better tires are better. Taking off a set of Michelin Hydroedges 235/60r16, a very good tire, I highly recommend them.
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Post by XJSman89 on Mar 8, 2013 9:35:26 GMT -6
I have always ran Goodyear on mine with the exception of Falkens for one year. Won't make that mistake again. The Integritys that were on the car when I bought it were complete crap but I love my comfortreds.
I'm excited to see what the tune amounts to. We should plug in a stock computer and run it (on the dyno), then plug in the tuned computer and run it to see how much power you gain.
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Post by Kersh on Mar 8, 2013 13:21:48 GMT -6
Just so you are aware, the tire you're looking at is 1.4" shorter than your current tire.
235/60/16 = 27.1" 245/50/16 = 25.7"
Because of the lack of vehicles running 16" wheels anymore, there are not a whole lot of options for sizes with a 27"+ diameter unless you go to a truck tire.
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Post by sall on Mar 8, 2013 13:41:48 GMT -6
May look a bit off but not too much difference on speedo...
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Post by XJSman89 on Mar 8, 2013 17:10:22 GMT -6
So now you can feel good about cruising when the speedo says 70, because your brain thinks you're doing 70 while you're actually going the legal 65 speed limit. ;D
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Post by bobsblue95 on Mar 8, 2013 17:28:53 GMT -6
So now you can feel good about cruising when the speedo says 70, because your brain thinks you're doing 70 while you're actually going the legal 65 speed limit. ;D Except in theAurora it still feels like you're barely going 50.
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Post by oldwino on Mar 8, 2013 20:08:07 GMT -6
So now you can feel good about cruising when the speedo says 70, because your brain thinks you're doing 70 while you're actually going the legal 65 speed limit. ;D On the downside, you'll be getting 70mph gas mileage while you're cruising at 65mph.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 9, 2013 6:41:15 GMT -6
Gentlemen, I appreciate the great info! For a while I had BF Goodrich 215/55R16, so I am not unfamiliar with having the wrong speedometer reading. Since the tires will have a smaller circumference, then they will also take off a tiny bit faster, correct? That will be ok with me. I have been considering switching to 18" wheels in the future and I will tell you why. You can combine front CTS-V, or G8 GXPs or '10 Camaro SS calipers with 2005 Mustang GT500 Rotors, and that is pretty much a bolt on affair for our late '96 and up Auroras with a few other added parts. People have put the CTS-V front calipers on many Grand Prixs, and we have the same brake setup as they do. I put '97 Aurora front rotors and brackets on my girlfriends '00 Grand Prix. The calipers were identical, but Aurora rotors are bigger, so it was a slight upgrade for her car. I also put '07 Impala front calipers, brackets, and rotors on my brothers '07 Grand Prix. I thought it was odd, but his GP also had the same Aurora single piston calipers, but they had a little bigger rotor than stock Aurora, you think they would have upgraded the calipers by then. I also have '07 Impala front calipers on my '97 Aurora, so GP brake setups are the same bolt pattern as Auroras. I have a stack of Aurora Calipers '96-'03 if anyone ever needs any, lol. www.grandprixforums.net/official-what-you-need-how-cts-v-brakes-46217.html
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 9, 2013 6:58:37 GMT -6
I am now considering deleting the block reseal idea, this motor is pretty much dry around the oil pan, and I don't think it will be an issue. If it does become an issue, then it's not a problem to drop the trans and fix it. I am glad I pulled the coolant crossover, those gaskets were brittle and cracked. The gaskets on the crossover I pulled on a 3.5 2g were the same way. IMO these should be changed on every Aurora.
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Post by auroraandy1 on Mar 9, 2013 8:23:21 GMT -6
This thread is the beginning of my 4.6 swap, I will document the process along the way. A little history on my '97 Aurora. It is the first Aurora I bought, when I got it, it had 136,000 miles, I swapped the drivetrain at 190k, but it did not last very long, the motor seemed not right from the start. I am at 221k now, the motor and trans are very strong, but I can not drive over 50 without it overheating. I hope to install studs in this 4.0 in the future, hopefully by the time this 4.6 blows, lol. My introduction thread. aurorah.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Intros&action=display&thread=6661First drivetrain swap. aurorah.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=1stgen&action=display&thread=18851&page=1 I now have a '98 vin "y" 4.6 275 hp 300 ft lbs of torque, I don't know much about the motor, but it looks pretty clean and oil leak free,it came from Texas. I am not sure why, but the freeze plugs all have a metal plate that say "removal will void warranty". Since I have not seen freeze plugs like that, I hope it might be some kind of rebuilt engine. I was not at work today, but went in after to see if it was there. It looks like they sat the oil pan on a corner and now it has oil coming out of it. Not very happy about that, but it is what it is, new oil pan is $50, and I can at least put a fresh reseal on it while it's apart. I don't want to use my 4.0 oil pan because I am going to keep oil in it while storing it. I have a Cadillac vin "9" 3:71 trans I will be installing with the motor, same as an Autobahn Aurora. I also have a computer from a '99 vin "9" Cadillac I will try to run it with, if that doesn't work I will try an Autobahn computer, then if that doesn't work I will have to get an autobahn reflash for my car or possibly even a custom tune, whatever it takes, I will attempt to accomplish it. If it works, I will have a GXP type Aurora. I have a new radiator coming in in the morning, I already have a newer '99 coolant tank and new thermostat I will be installing, the trans will get a new side cover filter and lower screens, along with all new fluid. I will be inspecting the coolant crossover gaskets and anything else that needs done on the engine before I install it, what I have seen so far looks pretty good. Vin "9" computer, on top of 3 standard Aurora computers. Vin "9" 3:71 transmission. Vin "Y" 275 4.6, not my pink spray paint, it will be removed. lol I have not confirmed it's a "Y" yet, but it's supposed to be. WOW great thinking about the GXP PCM because it actually has the autobahn/3.77 gear final drive, but without having to put in the Y PCM which is what EVERY 4.6 Vin Y comes with (EXCEPT the GXP, as I said way to go, thats thinking outside the box!!), because im thinking why would you get the regular 275hp 4.6 and combine it with 3.77 gears and then have to use the Vin Y PCM which means it's higher shiftpoints (taking you out of your powerband) and a higher redline (which wouldnt be a bad thing), who knows though maybe if you can get ahold of a spare Vin Y PCM and run 0-60 1/4 g-tech times with the GXP PCM then swap it for a Seville STS/Eldorado ECT (300 hp 4.6/vin y) PCM, and even though the shiftpoints are a bit out of its powerband in the next gear it will be closer to it's powerband however so you never know; I think it'd be an awesome experiment, especially if you ever goto a drag strip to try both pcms out, and the higher redline can't go wrong with that! But very jealous, just sad my Aurora is currently in an abandoned parking lot with this ordeal, hopefully ill get her up and running by this weekend I HOPE
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 9, 2013 19:15:47 GMT -6
I have always ran Goodyear on mine with the exception of Falkens for one year. Won't make that mistake again. The Integritys that were on the car when I bought it were complete crap but I love my comfortreds. I'm excited to see what the tune amounts to. We should plug in a stock computer and run it (on the dyno), then plug in the tuned computer and run it to see how much power you gain. Integritys have no intergrity. lol. I got the tires on today, the are a little noisy, but they handle exceptionally well, going around corners feels like I am just going straight, it's different, it's nice. Yeah, that is what I was thinking about doing before and after tests, I will still have an original Autobahn PCM I will be keeping.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 10, 2013 6:45:50 GMT -6
WOW great thinking about the GXP PCM because it actually has the autobahn/3.77 gear final drive, but without having to put in the Y PCM which is what EVERY 4.6 Vin Y comes with (EXCEPT the GXP, as I said way to go, thats thinking outside the box!!), because im thinking why would you get the regular 275hp 4.6 and combine it with 3.77 gears and then have to use the Vin Y PCM which means it's higher shiftpoints (taking you out of your powerband) and a higher redline (which wouldnt be a bad thing), who knows though maybe if you can get ahold of a spare Vin Y PCM and run 0-60 1/4 g-tech times with the GXP PCM then swap it for a Seville STS/Eldorado ECT (300 hp 4.6/vin y) PCM, and even though the shiftpoints are a bit out of its powerband in the next gear it will be closer to it's powerband however so you never know; I think it'd be an awesome experiment, especially if you ever goto a drag strip to try both pcms out, and the higher redline can't go wrong with that! But very jealous, just sad my Aurora is currently in an abandoned parking lot with this ordeal, hopefully ill get her up and running by this weekend I HOPE Thanks! The Aurora will not run on different computers, at least the 1 from a Cadillac I got, it does not communicate with the dic properly. But, I do have an Aurora Autobahn pcm I will be using, and another tuned pcm may also be in the works to bring out the potential of the 4.6.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 10, 2013 17:23:33 GMT -6
Picked up some newer injectors today, off an '01 4.6, I have the plugs, too, not sure how to wire it in, or if I even want to mess with it. I don't want to mess up my original harness, or anything else. I do have extra, so hopefully I can make one that will work properly I can bolt on. These injectors need more pressure, but our fuel pressure can be adjusted by the torx safety screw on the fpr. How much pressure, I am not sure, will have to do some more investigating. I wish aurorabrain was still around. Stock '97 Aurora injector next to the newer injectors. aurorah.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Zoom&action=display&thread=11339
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Post by Marc on Mar 10, 2013 18:38:16 GMT -6
These injectors need more pressure, but our fuel pressure can be adjusted by the torx safety screw on the fpr. How much pressure, I am not sure, will have to do some more investigating. My guess: It'll take some experimenting.
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