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Post by jummama on Jul 3, 2015 11:47:05 GMT -6
If it's a key issue, you'd need to do the relearn procedure for the new key. If you get a new key, and the security light stays on like before, then you're looking at the exciter in the ignition switch, the VTD module in the center console, or the wiring between the two. I don't think you can replace the exciter module separately from the rest of the ignition switch.
Here's a crazy MacGyverish idea that just might work for diagnosis... do you have access to any other PK3 keys from any GM vehicle? If not, I think you can get uncut blanks for around 25 bucks. Take silly putty or tape or something temporary like that, and put them both end to end, overlapping the plastic parts together... here's a crappy text drawing of what I mean: <===O===>
Then, put the Aurora end in your ignition, and try the relearn again. If the light goes out in the first step of that, then new key should work for you. If it's someone elses key, I would stop there after the security light goes out, and go get the new key, or at least be prepared to do a relearn on their car when you're done. If it's a blank, I would go through the whole relearn at this point.
That said, If you go complete the relearn with this frankenkey, the car should start when both keys are in the area. If you then take the other key away from the area of the ignition switch while the car is running, it would go into "fail enable" mode, where the security light will stay on, but the PK3 system would be disabled until the battery is disconnected. I'm not sure if the car actually programs the key, or if it just learns its signature, which is why I wouldn't recommend doing the full relearn on someone else's key.
My concern with just getting another key cut is that if it's not the key, and you have to replace the ignition switch because of a bad exciter, then you will have wasted money on the new key, in addition to the cost of the switch.
HTH
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Post by lottj88 on Jul 3, 2015 11:48:26 GMT -6
My dad said I might need a starter but would that trigger the theft system fault on the dic
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Post by jummama on Jul 3, 2015 12:00:49 GMT -6
That shouldn't cause the security light to come on. It's definitely part of the security system acting up. Whether it's the key, switch, wiring, or VTD module is a bit murky without more testing. Using an alternate key near the ignition while trying the first step of the relearn is probably the path of least resistance for checking the key.
A bad starter would behave similarly, except that the security light wouldn't stay solid on like that, and you'd likely still hear a click from the starter relay when you try.
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Post by lottj88 on Jul 3, 2015 15:33:25 GMT -6
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Post by lottj88 on Jul 3, 2015 15:35:38 GMT -6
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Post by lottj88 on Jul 3, 2015 15:36:54 GMT -6
ok theres the link so you guys can see just what i am talking about
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Post by jummama on Jul 3, 2015 15:54:45 GMT -6
That sound it's making... at first I thought it was the AC blower, but I noticed on you console it was off. Is it possibly one of the radiator fans? I noticed it is complaining about coolant level, and I know that will force the radiator fan on. The fuel pump is in the trunk, so it should make the most noise there.
With the headlights, have you checked if the switch is set to auto? In mine, the lights will stay on with the key out if I have the switch set to on. With auto, it will turn them off with the key.
I also notice there is a non-stock deck in it, which is near where the theft deterrent module is located, so it's definitely worth pulling that out and checking the wires to it in that area, and spraying the wire harness and plug with some electrical contact spray.
It's a beautiful car, don't give up yet!
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Post by lottj88 on Jul 3, 2015 16:10:36 GMT -6
Yes i love this car I had it for about 3 years now and I put a stock radio in it like a month ago, so could that cause my car to not start I have everything hooked up right with the radio, what would cause it to that pertaining to the radio
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Post by lottj88 on Jul 3, 2015 16:12:06 GMT -6
So take out the theft deterrent module?
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Post by sall on Jul 3, 2015 16:33:23 GMT -6
Copy and Pasted form FSM:
SECURITY Indicator Illuminated and Engine Does Not Start
The theft deterrent control module or the PCM has detected a problem with the theft deterrent system. The theft deterrent control module is unable to measure the ignition key transponder value. The System is in Learn Mode, refer to Programming Theft Deterrent System Components .
Programming Theft Deterrent System Components Important: When replacing a theft deterrent control module with an GM Service Parts Operation (SPO) Replacement Part, set up the control module prior to the 10-minute relearn procedure or the 30-minute relearn procedure.
Tools Required Scan tool
Set Up a New Theft Deterrent Control Module Use this procedure only if replacing the theft deterrent control module with an GM SPO Replacement Part.
Connect a scan tool to the vehicle. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. With a scan tool, select Setup New VTD Module in the Vehicle Theft Deterrent, Special Functions data list. Follow the scan tool on-screen instructions. Important:
• When replacing a theft deterrent control module with an GM SPO Replacement Part, the module will learn the keys immediately. The existing powertrain control module (PCM) must learn the new fuel continue password when you replace the theft deterrent control module.
• When replacing a PCM with a GM SPO Replacement Part, the new PCM will learn the incoming fuel continue password immediately after programming and upon receipt of a password message. Once a password message is received and a password is learned, perform the learn procedure to change this password again. A PCM which had been installed in another vehicle will have learned the fuel continue password of the other vehicle's theft deterrent control module. Perform either the 10-minute relearn procedure or the 30-minute relearn procedure after programming to learn the fuel continue password of the current vehicle's theft deterrent control modules.
• When performing either relearn procedure, all previously learned keys will be erased from the theft deterrent control module's memory.
• Additional keys may be learned immediately after the first relearn procedure by inserting the additional key and turning the ignition to RUN within 10 seconds of removing the previously learned key.
• Use only a master key when performing the first relearn procedure. If you use a valet key first, the theft deterrent control module will not allow additional keys to be learned.
Tools Required • Scan tool
• Techline Terminal with current Service Programing System (SPS) software
10-Minute Relearn Procedure Use this procedure after replacing the following components:
• The passkey III (PK3) keys
• The theft deterrent control module
• The PCM, see Important above
Important: If replacing a theft deterrent control module with a GM SPO Replacement Part, perform the procedure to setup a new theft deterrent control module prior to the 10-minute relearn procedure.
Connect a scan tool to the vehicle. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. Insure that all power consuming devices are turned OFF on the vehicle. With a scan tool, select Request Info. under Service Programming System and follow the scan tool on-screen instructions. Disconnect the scan tool from the vehicle and connect the scan tool to a Techline Terminal with the current Service Programming System (SPS) software. On the Techline Terminal, select Service Programming System and follow the Techline Terminal on-screen instructions. Disconnect the scan tool from the Techline Terminal and re-connect the scan tool to the vehicle. With a master passkey III key, turn ON the ignition with the engine OFF. With a scan tool, select Program ECU under Service Programming System. At this point the scan tool must remain connected for the duration of the 10-minute relearn procedure. Important: On some vehicles the SECURITY telltale maybe illuminated on steady for the duration of the 10-minute relearn procedure.
Observe the scan tool, after approximately 10 minutes the scan tool will display "Programming Successful, Turn OFF Ignition". The vehicle is now ready to relearn the key information and/or the passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to ON. Turn OFF the ignition and wait 5 seconds. With a master Passkey III key, start the vehicle. The theft deterrent control module has now learned the key transponder information and the PCM has now learned the fuel continue password. Important: Perform this step ONLY on vehicles with EXPORT and Canadian configured theft deterrent control modules.
Turn OFF the ignition and wait 15 seconds minimum. Important: Perform this step ONLY on vehicles with EXPORT and Canadian configured theft deterrent control modules.
With a second master passkey III key, start the vehicle. The theft deterrent control module has now learned the second master Passkey III key transponder information With a scan tool, clear any DTCs. 30-Minute Relearn Procedure Use this procedure after replacing the following components:
• The passkey III (PK3) keys
• The theft deterrent control module
• The PCM, see important above
Important: This procedure is not available on vehicles equipped with option code (Z49 or BAE).
If replacing a theft deterrent control module with an GM SPO Replacement Part, perform the procedure to setup a new theft deterrent control module prior to the 30-minute relearn procedure.
With a master passkey III key (Black), turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. Observe the Security telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn off. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds. Repeat steps 1-3 two more times for a total of 3 cycles or 30 minutes. Important: The vehicle learns the key transponder information and/or passwords on the ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.
With a master passkey III key, start the vehicle. The vehicle has now learned the key transponder information and the PCM has now learned the fuel continue password. With a scan tool, clear any DTCs.
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Post by jummama on Jul 3, 2015 17:21:19 GMT -6
lottj88: It's not that the aftermarket stereo would itself cause security issues, but that the theft deterrent module is close enough to it that perhaps a wiring harness got loose, or a wire could have been compromised while installing it. Remove the module, spray contact cleaner on the plug of the module, and on the wiring harness for it, then inspect and splice any broken wires in the harness. Plug it all back in, and try starting the car. If that still doesn't work, it would be worth trying the relearn again after doing that. If that STILL doesn't work, then it's more likely the key or the transponder exciter in the ignition switch.
If it's not the theft module, I would check with a nearby GM dealer and see if they can test the key itself. If they can't, then I would try either the MacGyver method I put up earlier, or get a new key cut. With a new key, you'll need to do the relearn before it will work.
sall: You mentioned copying and pasting that from the FSM... Where did you get a digital version? I want one too!
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Post by lottj88 on Jul 3, 2015 18:01:52 GMT -6
lottj88: It's not that the aftermarket stereo would itself cause security issues, but that the theft deterrent module is close enough to it that perhaps a wiring harness got loose, or a wire could have been compromised while installing it. Remove the module, spray contact cleaner on the plug of the module, and on the wiring harness for it, then inspect and splice any broken wires in the harness. Plug it all back in, and try starting the car. If that still doesn't work, it would be worth trying the relearn again after doing that. If that STILL doesn't work, then it's more likely the key or the transponder exciter in the ignition switch. If it's not the theft module, I would check with a nearby GM dealer and see if they can test the key itself. If they can't, then I would try either the MacGyver method I put up earlier, or get a new key cut. With a new key, you'll need to do the relearn before it will work. sall: You mentioned copying and pasting that from the FSM... Where did you get a digital version? I want one too! Ok thanks I will let my mechanic know a the information you guys told me tomorrow and I'll let you guys know exactly what happened
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Post by oldsrocketaurora on Jul 5, 2015 11:16:13 GMT -6
Here's a stab in the dark (kinda) .... You said the gas guage doesn't work. If you still have the old style fuel pump assembly, there is a connector on that fuel pump that can burn out and melt. Could it be a possibility that it burnt out causing power contact to still be made, leaving the pump powered and the security system sees power without a key in the ignition? Worth a quick look by removing the access panel in the trunk to check that connector, dont you think?
Again, just a stab.
-Joe
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Post by lottj88 on Jul 5, 2015 12:51:50 GMT -6
It was a bad ground wire thanks for all the information you guys were all a wonderful help
Jeff
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tigger
Administrator
Posts: 2,844
Staff Member
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Post by tigger on Jul 5, 2015 22:39:04 GMT -6
Haha, should have known!
Glad it was a simple fix and you're back on the road!
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Post by jummama on Jul 6, 2015 0:57:37 GMT -6
Glad to hear you're back on the road with your Aurora!
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Post by claude on Mar 18, 2016 20:30:11 GMT -6
It was a bad ground wire thanks for all the information you guys were all a wonderful help Jeff Hello, I'm having the same issue. Where was the ground wire location for the fix?
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Post by claude on Mar 18, 2016 20:32:24 GMT -6
Hello, where was the ground wire location for the fix? I'm having the same issue.
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