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Post by stevensolds on Jun 21, 2005 21:28:59 GMT -6
I need some more ponies now. After seeing some dyno numbers on another aurora non-autobahn at like 190.0HP and 198.00TQ after the 24% loss thru the tranny, dayum....i need more than that. The 80mm TB's gave 15 more horses. For $300 plus a lame $100 core charge that may be something to look into. Oh, lets not forget installation, tsk tsk.
In all seriousness, how much would a K&N drop-in filter get me? Like 1 horse at the wheels? I want something that will be noticeable and worth the cash. I doubt an intake would do anything -- probably make it worse.
Thoughts? Anything i can do right now?
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Post by bLACk AurOrA on Jun 21, 2005 21:34:40 GMT -6
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 21, 2005 22:05:02 GMT -6
Screw DP...that jerkoff even upped the price from 285.
Ive read threads from other boards were people bought $3000 performance trannys over a year ago and he charged the card but never shipped anything.
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Post by JimW on Jun 22, 2005 6:43:46 GMT -6
Yea, stay away from Domestic Performance for now. Since you are OBD 1 Steve you could get a chip. To bad full blown PCM's are not available.
Intake (gutted w/K&N) and full cat back helps.
RSM is expensive, but reputable.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 22, 2005 8:01:26 GMT -6
Drop a 4.6L from a junkyard in there. Or start gutting the car to lose weight.
Seriously, bolt ons will help somewhat, but there is a limit to what the stock motor will do. If you want serious power increases, you have to make serious changes.
You could try a higher-stall convertor to get the motor in the sweet-spot sooner. It will hurt mileage, but yours is pretty crummy anyway. And you could extrude-hone the exhaust manifolds. You could also swap in the LD7 cams, but since your car redlines at 6,000 rpm, you won't exploit the power. You'd need to replace the valve gear and reprogram the car for at least a 6,500 rpm cutoff. Also, you'd lose torque like crazy, but you would gain power. 3.71:1 gears and a higher-stall torque convertor might help ultimate acceleration, but off-the-line would suck.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 22, 2005 8:07:03 GMT -6
Also, autobahn or non-autobahn should have no effect on the dyno numbers.
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 22, 2005 8:40:27 GMT -6
Thanks Bob. I dont know what to take out to lose weight. I guess the spare and jack, but that will only be what, 20 pounds? Its not that hard to take out i dont think anyway.
Hmm...the back seat, but that may look a bit retarded. I dont think that weighs much to begin with. Sound deadening? Nah.
Any other things i can remove?
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Post by JimW on Jun 22, 2005 8:40:47 GMT -6
190 fwhp are numbers from an bone stock Aurora (250 bhp x .24) = 60hp, 250-60 = 190 fwhp.
For example, based on my mods I shoooould be pushing 200-202 fwhp. An 80mm TB should generate another 5 fwhp, based on a solid intake/exhaust mod. But as for bolt on mods, thats where it ends.
Sounds like you want more off the line grunt, and the DOHC engine just doesnt do that. The Aurora 4.0 is a high rev high speed performer.
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Post by Snoman002 on Jun 22, 2005 8:48:47 GMT -6
Get some headers made (and get them ceramic coated) guessing 10-20 HP
Catback, guessing 5-20 HP
New Y-pipe and cat, guessing 5-15 HP
Intake improvements, guessing 2-7 HP
Transmission shift kit, no HP but improved acceleration. You might be able to put a corvette servo on yours (yous is the 4t65 right?), not sure about the transverse trannies but I know this is one of the first mods for the longitudinal trannies. It is about $15 and makes the transmission shift faster between 1st and 2nd and gives the bands more holding power. Like I said, not sure about the transvers transmissions, but worth a shot to check.
And of course there is always NOS (and don't think of calling it NAAAWWSS), I imagine these motors sould safly handle a 100 HP shot if setup right for it.
All the HP figures I said are just rough guesses as I am not that familar with these cars and motors, but for an average car those are decent estimates. The question that arises is availability for parts.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 22, 2005 9:17:45 GMT -6
There really isn't much you can do to save weight unless you want to gut the car. You could remove sound deadening material, remove the radio and speakers and amps. You could discharge the A/C and remove a lot of that system. You could put 15" wheels on the car, maybe with narrower rears. A smaller battery, though you'd have to be a lot more attentive to it. Stuff like that. I wouldn't suggest this route, as why not just buy a less comfortable car instead. Underfill the gas tank, keep the oil and coolant right above the "add". All in all you'd still have a heavy car, just maybe one that was in the 3700's instead of the 3900's lbs. And of course your body kit and wing is adding weight to the car...
Headers will likely not fit on the car, the front one passes between the tranny and the engine.
Really, what do you mean by "some more ponies"? Like enough to run 14's? 13's? Just a little bit more? A nitrous shot would probably be the easiest and cheapest way to add power. Just use common sense and have conservative goals with it so you don't have problems.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 22, 2005 9:19:40 GMT -6
Also, every car loses power from the crank to the wheels. So it's the same for any other 250hp car. This isn't exclusive to the Aurora.
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 22, 2005 9:21:55 GMT -6
Nah..my tranny is the 4T80-E. The 65 is for the 6 bangers. I appreciate the lists guys....I am considering the 80MM TB's, but $400 + install is a ton of dough for only, what, 5fwhp. The computer should automatically adjust for the extra air, so there isnt a problem there.
I ordered the 2.25" SS y-pipe from my Midas where i got mufflers installed. I can get it on whenever it comes in. High Flow cat i will do also, but i dont know if it will even do anything. Jim...did the high flow cat give you any seat-of-the-pants improvements?
I wouldnt do a shift kit for this tranny anyway, as it ages 100x faster with me as the pilot.
NOS...nope. Not gonna blow my engine or tranny for that, cause i would probably overuse it.
I like the Ported Heads on RSM. $2600 though. wow. 30HP gain to the wheels i could go for.
Do you think, if i wanted to, could i drop a 4.6 Caddy motor in this car?
Oh yeah...i forgot, what would one think my mufflers added to the front wheels, if anything?
Btw bob, i know every car loses power, but not every vehicle loses 24%, especially not a stick. A stick doesnt hardly lose any power doesi t?
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Post by Letitroll98 on Jun 22, 2005 9:41:55 GMT -6
We've talked about this before. One of the single biggest improvements is a performance air filter, be it K&N or Fram Airhog. A quote from the only dyno test I know of, "K&N panel filter alone: +7 peak HP, +4 peak torque. Gains of 3 to 4 HP. (Red line above) throughout curve past 4,000 rpm. Gains of up to 7 ft-lbs in the 5,300 to 5,760 rpm range." caddyinfo.onedgesolutions.com/dyno/4airboxtest.htmHe adds some info about the airbox mod as well, stating not much peak hp or torque gains, but gains of "of 6 HP from 4,600 to 4,900 rpm" and "of up to 8 ft-lbs of torque from about 4,640 to 4870" over K&N filter alone. Overall a solid 10hp/10ftlb gain. There is also a report on the RSM throttle body assembly mod. I say assembly because it's stressed to also install a new and matching TB plate. Quoted: Baseline runs: 191.1 HP, 205 torque; 193.2 HP, 209.1 torque. New TB runs: 198.6 HP, (+5.4 peak HP - at wheels) 214.2 torque (+5.1 peak torque). caddyinfo.onedgesolutions.com/reviews/tb.htmYou can check the Northstar Modification Summary they have to view everybody's reports at www.caddyinfo.com/nsmodsummary.htm Then the above mention EPROM memcal performance chip is advertized online from about $280 to $330. There are some debates on how easy it is to install this mod, but performance gains are touted to be 15hp peak at the wheels. I haven't seen a dyno for our 4.0L. You already have a modified muffler system, that could be expanded to a catback. I would think most beneficial if done in concert with the other mods mentioned above. Looks like you could conservatively add 20hp peak and maybe 30hp in the power band (not all mods will add the total hp on top of the other's gains). P.S. This test says the cone filter with the snorkle is bogus, stay with the standard airbox. www.caddyinfo.com/airboxvscone.htm
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 22, 2005 9:44:31 GMT -6
isn't the stock Y-pipe 2.5"? Is yours corroded? Otherwise, why the swap? 2.5" pipe all the way back might help. I think the bang-for-the-buck stuff you have already done. Gut the airbox, K&N panel filter, cat-back exhaust. The rest seems to be more expensive for smaller gains. You could probably get a cone filter and build some heat shielding to box it in. I don't know if it will gain, but it shouldn't cost very much. I'd bet ported heads would hurt the low-end on our cars. For $2600, you'd be pretty close to a swap with the 4.6L. You should expect it won't just drop in and start up, but I wouldn't think there would be a ton of problems. I'd think it's easier than dropping a 4.6L into a Fiero or a DeLorean... But spending $3-4,000 for 30hp, is that worth it? It would be solid power, though, not some weak curve that kills driveability and only makes more power for like a 1000 rpm window.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 22, 2005 9:51:20 GMT -6
Look at the SC400's with the 4.0L V8. They are rated at 250hp also, but only put about 175hp to the wheels. Feel better?
Every car is different. Corvettes seem to lose about 15-18% to the wheels. But this might also be because they tend to underrate their motors, which makes the loss seem less. It seems stock ZR-1's put about 330-340hp to the wheels. I'm probably going to dyno mine just to see how it's doing. It is completely stock except for an open air lid, Hurst shifter, and two more "ZR-1" stickers (which adds about 10hp).
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 22, 2005 9:57:26 GMT -6
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Post by Letitroll98 on Jun 22, 2005 10:14:14 GMT -6
I'm not sure, just an eyeball measurement, but I don't think the stock piping is 2.5", more like 2" or less. and way down after the split. He's ordered it anyway, and from all the knowledgable sites I've purveyed it looks like 2.5" in the single and 2.25" after the split is ideal for maximum power in the 4.0L. All of this points to the fact that an internal combustion engine is an air pump. The more air you can pump through it, combined with enough fuel, the more power you can make. Since we're topped out with RPM and cylinder volume without massive expense, and the fuel delivery is sufficient for our modest needs, just shove more air in any way you can.
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Post by Custom88 on Jun 22, 2005 10:38:18 GMT -6
In my humble oppinion, if you want a similar car and want a lot more grunt down low (which it sounds like you want) then get an SSEi. Seriously though, that should satisfy your hunger for power and they're easily modified to get even more power. (yet I think a little bit over 300 Ft-LBS of torque should be enough for someone your age. ) The 3800's rated at 280 because the transmission is. The real engine has been actually found to put out over 300 ft-lbs of torque. Impressive for a V6!
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 22, 2005 10:53:22 GMT -6
Oooo i feel better now hehe. I know someone that has a SC400 says he can "blow the doors" off my car. Its a lot lighter i believe though.
I didnt pay for the y-pipe yet or sign anything, so if i wanted to, i could tell them to send it back. The stock pipe is 2.25" though according to them...
Hey Dan, i looked at a few SSEi's before this car. I looked at so many cars...1995 Impala SS's with 300HP stock; 1995 Mustangs with 5.0; Lincoln Mark VIII. There are a couple others but i cant think of them at the moment.
I wont be getting another car anytime soon or in the near future. I am pretty well satisified with the power in my Aurora, i dunno maybe i am overdoing it a bit. I could always use more, put it that way hehe. Not to mention the body work and all the repairs i have in the car.
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Post by Snoman002 on Jun 22, 2005 11:53:40 GMT -6
Well a shift kit will actuall extend the life of the transmission. It shortens the shift times and adds more pressure to the bands, that helps prevent wear.
If done right a NOS setup will have almost no negative effects on the life of the drivetrain. It can get expensive refilling the bottle all the time though.
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Post by 95mushroom on Jun 22, 2005 12:19:09 GMT -6
4.0, could would post what equations you used in your figuring. It would be interesting to see what mine would have...
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 22, 2005 13:37:21 GMT -6
Oooo i feel better now hehe. I know someone that has a SC400 says he can "blow the doors" off my car. Its a lot lighter i believe though. 1995 Impala SS's with 300HP stock; From what I've heard, the 1st gen GS400 will run an upper 15's 1/4 mile. 15.5-15.9 area. The 1994-96 Impala SS had 260hp. It was an iron version of the LT-1 cammed more for low-end torque as the car was much heavier. I had a buddy with a 1996 with Flowmasters and a ram-air that would run low 15's at the track. Another friend of mine has a nice stock 1996 SS and was impressed when I told him about my track visit. He figured I'd probably take him in a race with that time.
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Post by SupaStealth on Jun 22, 2005 18:01:28 GMT -6
when i was measuring up my pipe, before the cat is 2.5" O.D. then after the cat was 2.25" stock.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 22, 2005 18:53:42 GMT -6
4.0, could would post what equations you used in your figuring. It would be interesting to see what mine would have... I just did a google search for horsepower calculators based on 1/4 mile trap speeds.
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Post by GlennS87 on Jun 22, 2005 19:05:07 GMT -6
You won't get anything substantial from the TB without other mods. At the very least you need to do as much exhaust work as possible. Ideally LT headers but they would be big$$ since they would need to be custom. A cat back system with free flowing cat couple wtih the TB might give 20-30 hp. (real dyno proven hp, not seat of the pants, GTECH or whatever other magical measuring device). To make big horsepower you need to have the heads reworked (read ported)and some bigger cams put in. Once you got that done you would need to get a new program for your PCM. (Doesn't matter whether it's OBD I or II and not some garbage like superchips/hyperchips) It would need to be done custom ideally on a chassis dyno. I believe that if you did what was outlined above, you would probably get about 100 additional hp. Imagine 350 hp in your Aurora. That would be pretty sweet.
Unfortunately, it would probably cost you somewhere around 5k if you had someone else do the labor.
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 22, 2005 20:30:53 GMT -6
Yeah. I have no cash to spend on performance right now. Mainly money has been going to Gas --> regular maintenance --> repairs. Pep Boys wanted $62 for a K&N filter, i told them no. How much did anyone else here pay for their K&N?
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 22, 2005 22:12:42 GMT -6
Removed the spare tire and jack today btw.
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Post by Custom88 on Jun 22, 2005 23:02:30 GMT -6
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Post by macadamiaman on Jun 23, 2005 0:20:05 GMT -6
oh my god dude... don't remove your spare tire... that's just going too far. I personally guarantee that you don't notice any difference - but you will once you hit that pothole at 3AM 30 miles from your house without a cell phone in a bad neighborhood with three scary big men eyeing your pretty car... and pretty face... and, well, nevermind, I'm tired. Anyway it's stupid. But I'm sure you know that. Go for the bigger exhaust though, exhaust limits a bunch. Take out your catalytic converter, too. Screw laws! It's limiting horsepower in the double digits!!
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Post by stevensolds on Jun 23, 2005 8:54:40 GMT -6
My friend down the street here may be able to cut my cat off for me, then weld it back on when it comes time for emissions again....No shop is going to do that though. I wonder if the car will run worse without a cat though, since its meant for it.
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