1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 24, 2004 0:59:57 GMT -6
Lately I have been noticing that while I have my foot on the gas, on regular 35/45 mph streets, my Aurora jerks, and only happens while my foot is on the gas while maintaining a steady speed. I have have got myself use to using the cruise control even in regular city streets, and dont notice the jerking take place while on cruise, only happens when steadily increasing speed 5mph +/-. When i've noticed it happen, i've let go of the gass to see if it continues, but it doesnt, so it seems as it only happens while on the gas.... Anyone else have this happen that might know what this is due to, and if it sounds like I am about to encounter a repair of some sort? Thanks in advance for your feedback. Jon
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Post by stevensolds on Oct 24, 2004 12:19:26 GMT -6
if its a surging, spiking kind of thing, its time to replace your spark plugs and wires. that was happening to me around 77k miles and 3 wires and 1 plug was freyed, so thats why.... that fixed it completely.
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 24, 2004 12:44:13 GMT -6
was yours doing what I described?
Is there anyone else who might have experienced the same?
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Post by stevensolds on Oct 24, 2004 17:57:28 GMT -6
yes 2000 miles ago it was doing exactly that and im telling you -- change the plugs and wires with ACDelco Platinum tips, it will most likely fix it. also if it is hesitating, as mine did that at a stoplight one time and even when i did WOT, it took of slow as a 4 cylinder
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Post by Letitroll98 on Oct 24, 2004 21:17:37 GMT -6
1bad, look for the simple things first. This is fuel or spark. I would think spark here as it's not gradual or at high rpm. It could be as simple as a loose conection either on the battery or alterator or ignition coils. Check all wires first. Then check spark to the plugs, you can have a shop check it if you don't have a spark detector (which used to be a screwdriver for us b4 they went to overhead cam designs with long plug leads).
As Steven says, I think this is most likely a plug or ignition wire problem, but diagnosing is step by step with the easest things first, which you can check b4 taking it into the shop. In any case I wouldn't recommend driving in this condition. You can cause engine damage.
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Post by omegaic on Oct 24, 2004 22:17:01 GMT -6
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 25, 2004 10:59:17 GMT -6
Well, I drove it this morning, and WOW!!!! the car was "trembling" when I put it in gear, even while at a red light (even in reverse) when I went to accelerate it, it felt like the car was trembling, or shaking, it did not want to go, i had to accelerate it very slowly as the shaking would wear off slightly with more acceleration, then as it got more speed then it would go into "jerking"...as if not idling steadily...also noticed at times while stopped in traffic or light, that the needle would idle in accordance with the jerking, not by much but you could notice upward/downward unsteadiness. I am taking it in on Wednesday for the recall, they said a diagnose would be about $67, wondering if I should bother with the diagnose, or move right to changing the plug/wires without knowing for sure if thats it. The guy at the dealer said it could be a miriad of things, but of course its a dealerships job to try and getcha for everything, they said plugs/wires/labor over $300, holy $hit!!! what do you guys recommend, I need to drive it, but im scared to damage it, I already had to drive it to work today, then home (45 mile, 1hr long drive) HELP!
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dred98
Aurora Driver
Posts: 470
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Post by dred98 on Oct 25, 2004 11:17:58 GMT -6
It's difficult to know whether a diagnosis would achieve anything - it really sounds like it's the plugs and the wires, but you never know, there could be something else causing the problems and changing the plugs and wires might not cure it. I'd go for the code reading and then see what they recommend.
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Post by SupaStealth on Oct 25, 2004 11:20:18 GMT -6
i personally wouldn't spend the money to diagnose it, just change the plugs and wires, if you can do it yourself anyways. It cant hurt, cause i'm sure thats what they would do first thing anyways.
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 25, 2004 11:29:26 GMT -6
Dred, how would a code diagnose give any result if I dont have a check engine light on?
SupaStealth, I wouldnt mind changing those, but the wires alone are over $100, and unfortunately I am not mechanically inclined or have any tools, if it were a very simple task I would probably buy the tools...if someone is willing to explain to me how to change those or provide me with details, it would help very much.
So you guys dont think it might be anything else?
I am amazed that wires or spark alone would cause such an instability in the car, its kinda the reason i am hesitant to accept that answer, but of course you guys are more mechanically inclined than me, and have obviously worked on your Auroras, im new to Aurora, and would appreciate all the help you can offer.
Thanks, Jon
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dred98
Aurora Driver
Posts: 470
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Post by dred98 on Oct 25, 2004 12:43:32 GMT -6
Codes are stored in the car's computer and don't go away until they're cleared off by a code reader - some codes will trigger the "Service Engine Soon" light and others won't. The codes that turn on the light are usually emission related. Whatever you decide, the dealer will probably want to change the plugs and wires, at least to start with. The diagnosis might save money if they have to try other things without knowing what to look for. You can always ask them to change the plugs and wires and if that doesn't cure the problem then get a diagnosis afterwards.
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 25, 2004 13:03:03 GMT -6
I might take it in to Autozone to have them plug in the code reader, the dealership told me their diagnose is different...he said they would know if there is misfire or such, or fuel related type issues. I wonder if a code reader will also let me know about misfire?
Keep the comments coming, I unfortunately dont have the funding to spend on this car, but yet rely on it as my only means of trans., so whatever help/advice/info you can offer is greatly appreciated.
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Post by stevensolds on Oct 25, 2004 13:51:31 GMT -6
yes the wires were about 200 bucks and like 50 for the plugs.
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Post by erw38 on Oct 25, 2004 15:25:56 GMT -6
My personal opinion of what you should so is to first get it diagnosed by the dealer ONLY if they will then apply that fee to the repair. If you do that then:
1) you wont have to drive the car that way and risk possible engine damage
2) you are already getting the recall done so thyey could do it at the same time
3) at least you would know what is wrong
You can always say no to them if the tell you its something else (don't fall into the "FIX IT OR ELSE" trap that I am prone to. Wile they are fixing it, you can call around and get some quotes for a plug and wire change. You never know what will happen. In my opinion, since it is your daily driver (as mine is) and you "depend" on it that much then I would say go ahead and let the dealer diagnose the problem. Why risk it?
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Post by Rocketv8 on Oct 25, 2004 16:58:28 GMT -6
someone told you it might be the spark plugs or wires....they may be right... i had the same kind of problem around 79,000 miles....supposedly the plugs dont need to be changes until 100,000 miles but this is not true...i had a dead miss in the #3 cylinder due to a bad plug.....also the "trembling" you're describing could be a bad igmition coil (there are 3 of them) i had a bad coil and the car did that "trembling" thing, except my service engine soon light was flashing on & off (indicating a severe engine miss)...had that replaced and the car runs like new...sounds like some sort of spark problem to me
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 25, 2004 17:48:10 GMT -6
I just took it to an Autozone but they could not diagnose it as this car is ODB1, said I would have to tqke it in to a shop if i wanted a diagnose. Fortunately I know the head mechanic at a Chrysler Jeep dealer, he usually does all my work for me, I consulted with him, he too recommended to start with plugs/wires. So I am going to try and tackle it myself, however I now need your help in deciding on the parts, and how to remove/replace the 4 plugs/wires towards the back of the engine? The plugs are $5.98/ea., the wires I was told by my guy that namebrand did not matter, so did the guy at Autozone, but that plugs yes....so should I go with the AC Delco plugs, and would it be OK to go with the cheaper wires $64.99 vs AC Delco $112 (both bring lifetime warranty)
And finally if you guys can help me in how to get to the distributor and the 4 plugs/wires that are obstructed by some engine components....Im going to have to do all this tonight otherwise I cannot go to work tommorow, that or drive the car and screw it up. Thanks for your help (omegaic thanks for the scanned image, if you have those on how to get to the other 4 plugs and the distributor that would be awesome)
Thanks for all your help.
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Post by erw38 on Oct 25, 2004 18:01:16 GMT -6
Let me say that you might not want to skimp on the wires. I am aware of the lifetine warranty (I bought the 64.99 wires there too), but I don't think they are working as well as the Delco ones. The good thing that I can say on the 64.99 double silicon wires is that they do have a lifetime warranty. I am thinking about replacing mine because it feels like they are not working like they did when they were new (I'll try to check the plugs as well, but I am not sure how to do that). If you are troubled for money get the cheap wires, but be prepared to possibly have more problems in the future. As far as getting to the back 4 plugs, I believe taking off the coil packs will help. For much better info on the topic Letitroll98 is your man! He knows more about spark plug wires on this car then I will ever know.
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 25, 2004 18:18:52 GMT -6
Yes $$$ is an issue, as much as Id really like to go with the delco wires. What are the coil packs? in this image, on the farther end there are 4 things that are on 1 long piece which are in the way? Is it going to be confusing, hard to take that piece off, confusing to put it back on, I dont want to be worse than before I get started.
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 25, 2004 18:20:57 GMT -6
If anyone has MSN or AIM dont hesitate to add me if you can hel me out with this: aim is: bridalsupplies1 and MSN is: bridalsuppliesdirect@hotmail.com
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Moe2244
Aurora Newbie
Black 95 Aurora
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Post by Moe2244 on Oct 25, 2004 18:51:43 GMT -6
What's the likely hood that the hesitating could come from a bad coil pack(s). I had a major tune up on my car about a year ago, which straightened out the hesitating (ran like a champ when I got the car back from the dealer), but about a month later the hesitating started again. I question the vulnerabilty of those oldsmo coil packs.
Has anyone every purchased one or a set, and replaced them themselves? What's the cost?
Also, what's the best way to check to see if all my plug wires are still good, besides the old spark test. Can this be down correctly with an ohm meter? When I first had my plug wires replaced, I had one that was completely fried. I'm just wondering if some of them prematurely burn out from time to time, and need constant checking.
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Post by stevensolds on Oct 25, 2004 20:22:19 GMT -6
just replace your damn plugs and wires --- it fixed mine and mine was doing the same exact things you are describing. you might even be luckier, i had to replace the whole ignition system, i ended up just getting digital ignition, its so much better but lots more $$$$. i paid for ******* i didnt even have money for at the time -- almost screwed myself.
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 25, 2004 20:28:28 GMT -6
well, like I said I purchased the plugs/wires and a kit to install them, maybe you missed the post up above asking for directions on how to remove the coil pack in order to install the plugs/wires.
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Post by stevensolds on Oct 25, 2004 20:29:54 GMT -6
ok, but if your ignition system fails too, get MSD digital if you can for the 200 or so dollars extra, it fires almost right up. i dont even hold the key for more than half a second. just click - VROOM.
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Post by erw38 on Oct 25, 2004 20:58:08 GMT -6
the 4 black "boxes" I circled are the coil packs. They all rest on a metal plate that should easily come off when you remore one or 2 screws. That should allow you enough room to get your hand behond there to change the plugs and wires. Be sure to mark the wires (the plug they go from to the coil the go to or else your car will not run correctly). Good luck with it.
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Post by Letitroll98 on Oct 25, 2004 21:22:13 GMT -6
Hay 1bad! This job is truly fun, a real knuckle cutter, but not even close to a knuckle buster. The thing you want to remove is called the "coil pack" as it consists of 4 ignition coils on a plastic mounting block, each coil serves two plugs.
-Remove engine cover, don't lose the plastic inserts. -The coil pack has four wire bundles, two per each side, to unhook. Just move the wires out of the way. -The coil pack has only four bolts. The front two are super easy, the back left almost as easy, the back right a real b*tch. Several different approaches have worked here. Some use a universal on the ratchet to loosen it enough to slide the pack out of the way. I went with removing one coil unit. The coil has two small bolts one front, one rear. I removed the far right, but afterwards thought the next over to the left may have been better. Either one should give you access to that b*tch. -Once the coil pack is off/loose, all is a breeze unless your plugs are frozen. P.S. always work on a cold engine as heat will expand the aluminum and lock those buggers in. -Use OEM AC Delco platinum plugs only. NKGs have been reported as good but you have to buy the right one, and I’ll bet the AutoZone guy doesn’t know the diff. -Use a good quality ignition wire. You need one that suppresses EMI and RFI both. These are stray electro magnetic fields generated by the ignition system that can mess up the ECM's that run your car. (Same thing happens in The Matrix when they fire off the EMF to zap the Sentinels, only you're doing it to your engine controls every time a plug fires) OEM wires do this just fine, but the carbon conductors AC Delco uses don't last forever, witness your present problem. Since a good quality wire with a long lasting Teflon insulator (a dielectric) costs about the same as OEM (around $100), why not buy the better part? I like the Magnecor’s I got from UltraRev.com, these are available from speed shops as well (you can buy direct from the mfg but they charge full retail). I got the cheapest 7mm, they have an 8mm for a little more and some full race 10mm’s but they’re the first to tell you not to waste your money (nice folks). I’m sure other brands are good too but I just don’t know them and there are more voodoo garbage than good stuff out there. If you have to get something fast, I’d go with OEM AC Delco rather than chance something else. -Make sure to use some silicone dielectric grease to seal the boot of the wires, both plug end and coil end. This stuff should be refreshed from time to time to maintain a weather seal, maybe what Élan is noticing now. -Don’t jam or force the new wire in, you can mess up the contact. Gently press the boot in until you feel the click of the contact seating on the plug, it’s easy to feel when its right. -Route the wires thru the loams just as they were taken off, reuse the plastic wire management tubes, they work just fine again. Put the engine cover back on, don’t over tighten, then VROOOM VROOOM!!!!!!
I’ll also e-mail this to ya.
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Post by Letitroll98 on Oct 25, 2004 22:02:16 GMT -6
What's the likely hood that the hesitating could come from a bad coil pack(s). I had a major tune up on my car about a year ago, which straightened out the hesitating (ran like a champ when I got the car back from the dealer), but about a month later the hesitating started again. I question the vulnerabilty of those oldsmo coil packs. Has anyone every purchased one or a set, and replaced them themselves? What's the cost? Also, what's the best way to check to see if all my plug wires are still good, besides the old spark test. Can this be down correctly with an ohm meter? When I first had my plug wires replaced, I had one that was completely fried. I'm just wondering if some of them prematurely burn out from time to time, and need constant checking. A) Yes, coils can go bad, and do on Auroras. However I wouldn't look there 1st. Ran great for a month? What parts did you use? Did the shop seal the wire boots with silicone grease? Sounds like moisture getting in there might be likely. B) You can check for arcing on the plugs to see if your wires are shorting out (you can also get some arcing on the coil post, but not common). You can go with the old screw driver test on the coil posts, but I understand they pack a good wallop, be careful. Most all shops have a wire tester they can hook up to all the wires to see if they're bad. One could hook onto the contact with a multitester or ye ol screwdriver, but those suckers are way up in the boot. C) Might it not be ignition at all? How about FPR? Throttle body dirty? etc.?
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 26, 2004 6:40:45 GMT -6
Well, I have tackled it, was up until midnight, only got to change 4 front plugs, no wires...helped the trembling out a little bit, but noticed very little change in this mornings commute. Lets see how well it turns out once I get it all done, going to finish it this Wednesday after it gets out of the shop from the fuel rail recall. But this is what im talkin about, the help i've got here is unbelieveable, many thanks to all of you who took the time to detail it out, and those who offered their input. You'll be the 1st to know how it turns out when its all done.
Thanks again. Jon
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 26, 2004 11:16:33 GMT -6
By the way I read on another "Spark plug" related thread in here, that the Delco's do not need to be gauged? I did notice they were pretty close to .05 out of the box, although I did still use the tool to bring it exactly to .05. Anyone know, because I've only don 4, so I dont wanna gauge the other 4 if I wasnt suppose to on Delco's.
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Post by erw38 on Oct 26, 2004 11:16:38 GMT -6
Jon,
I'm glad everything has worked so well for ya so far. I hope when all is sais and done that she is as good as new..
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1badaurora
Aurora Watcher
Do you hear that Mister Anderson? That, is the sound of inevitability.
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Post by 1badaurora on Oct 26, 2004 11:29:54 GMT -6
I certainly hope so, but im not going to finish until i hear from you guys in regards to gauge or not to gauge Delco's.
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