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Post by theRhinelander on Mar 16, 2015 8:31:51 GMT -6
Is it possible to change or replace the automatic transmission in the aurora, let alone any northstar wielding car, into a manual or at least something like so? I did some of my homework and I found some hope in a Cadillac forum page, but to do what they suggest you would have to convert to a RWD or it would be crazy expensive for a custom transmission. But that posts were from 2003, what I'm kind of wondering is couldn't you keep the automatic and modify it in a way so that you get to choose when to change gears? I know a little bit about manual transmissions, automatics I have very limited knowledge on so I might have it all wrong, or I could have a really novel idea. |
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Post by wfooshee on Mar 16, 2015 21:01:42 GMT -6
Mechanically, manuals and automatics have nothing in common but the word "transmission."
The only Northstar-engined car produced with a manual transmission was the Shelby Series 1. It used the Aurora motor and a manual 6-speed, although in rear-wheel-drive format.
All the Northstar engines (3.5, 4.0, and 4.6) have the same bolt pattern on the back, but the only time they put a clutch in one, it was set longitudinally to drive the rear. No housings exist to hold a clutch and pressure plate in a FWD configuration.
As for simply keeping the automatic and forcing it to shift manually..... Totally and completely pointless, besides being nearly impossible. The shifting is controlled electronically, so you'd have to find someone to develop and build you a control chip, but to what end? The only reason I can think of to manually shift an automatic is to downshift during braking, so the lower gear is there out of a turn instead of waiting for the automatic to decide, and you can do that already. But you can't do it smoothly, because matching the revs with the shift is nigh impossible.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 17, 2015 6:14:37 GMT -6
There is a Grand Prix with a 5 speed and a Northstar someone in the comments said the trans is a Getrag M-27 5 speed manual. I have also read there is some kind of S-10 bell housing that matches up to the Northstar/Aurora engine bolt pattern, then from there you can bolt it to a few other transmissions.
The Aurora engine is not a Northstar, it was made by GM for Oldsmobile based on the Northstar design. My Aurora does have a Northstar.
I drive my Aurora manual style with the automatic, I shift gears to keep them where I want them and use the trans to slow the car, mostly because I run straight pipes and I like the sound. Lol.
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RCA1186
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Post by RCA1186 on Mar 17, 2015 6:27:50 GMT -6
The only Northstar-engined car produced with a manual transmission was the Shelby Series 1. Wow didn't even think of that. The Aurora engine is not a Northstar, it was made by GM for Oldsmobile based on the Northstar design. Well.. TECHNICALLY lol. Exact same minus displacement, correct? |
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Post by sall on Mar 17, 2015 6:39:01 GMT -6
Those trans are popular with the fiero crowd to mate with the N*. I wouldn't expect them to last long in 2 ton vehicle though unless there are HD internal upgrades. Plus tons of other things you would have build,modify or find.
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plato442
Aurora Driver
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Post by plato442 on Mar 17, 2015 9:42:08 GMT -6
similar
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plato442
Aurora Driver
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Oldsmobile...
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Post by plato442 on Mar 17, 2015 9:43:52 GMT -6
TECHNICALLY lol. Exact same minus displacement, correct? right, BUT the Aurora engine is Oldsmobiles own. It was a special V8 designed for the Oldsmobile Aurora, based on the Northstar engine. I too have swapped a northstar in my aurora, but wouldn't want someone calling my car a Cadillac. Thats like saying my GMC is the same as a Chevy... most or the parts are the same, except for some better body styling and better interior and i specifically bought it over a chevy!! |
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RCA1186
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Post by RCA1186 on Mar 17, 2015 9:58:26 GMT -6
I still consider it a Northstar. I'm not calling the Aurora a Cadillac or anything, and I know it's technically called an Aurora V8 and not a Northstar, but tomato tomato in my book.
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Post by theRhinelander on Mar 17, 2015 10:18:32 GMT -6
I still consider it a Northstar. I'm not calling the Aurora a Cadillac or anything, and I know it's technically called an Aurora V8 and not a Northstar, but tomato tomato in my book. I only called it so because the parts and design are very similar. Even my V6 has the limp home feature and what not. Also I think the same design team that worked on the northstar engines worked on at least the aurora V8, if not the V6 |
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Mar 17, 2015 11:17:36 GMT -6
LX5 (3.5L V6) = "Shortstar"
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Post by wfooshee on Mar 18, 2015 14:11:50 GMT -6
The Northstar family is 3 engines. The Cadillac 4.6, the Oldsmobile 4.0, and the 3.5 V6 "Shortstar." They ARE Northstar engines. Even the Cadillac Le Mans car of 2000-2002 used the 4.0-liter engine, and called it a Northstar (although they bolted a couple turbos into the exhaust....) But we digress.  Putting a manual in the Aurora is a no-go, unless you want a $150,000 Aurora.... (Number pulled out of a dark place behind me, I have no idea what it would actually cost. Too much, at any rate.) |
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98redaurora
Aurora Driver
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Post by 98redaurora on Mar 18, 2015 16:40:06 GMT -6
Well a sixth gen Grand Prix Coupe weighs 3,400lbs stock. A first gen Aurora weighs nearly 4,000lbs. So the weight difference is there, but it isn't crazy. It probably isn't too far fetched to do the same setup as that Northstar Grand Prix, and have a manual Aurora.
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Post by theRhinelander on Mar 18, 2015 21:23:34 GMT -6
The Northstar family is 3 engines. The Cadillac 4.6, the Oldsmobile 4.0, and the 3.5 V6 "Shortstar." They ARE Northstar engines. Even the Cadillac Le Mans car of 2000-2002 used the 4.0-liter engine, and called it a Northstar (although they bolted a couple turbos into the exhaust....) But we digress. Putting a manual in the Aurora is a no-go, unless you want a $150,000 Aurora.... (Number pulled out of a dark place behind me, I have no idea what it would actually cost. Too much, at any rate.) Ha lol, its just a hypothetical question, not like I'm going to do it, would be pretty cool though how about a supercharger? my bosses supercharged 2001 grand prix took a dump on him yesterday, it won't go forward anymore lol. Ironically he's been looking around for a replacement for a couple of weeks, and well now he's really needing to get rid of it. there isn't much room in our engine compartments, but we've managed to put 4.6 L northstars in there somehow! |
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98redaurora
Aurora Driver
This is not your fathers Oldsmobile.
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Post by 98redaurora on Mar 18, 2015 21:45:25 GMT -6
Since Northstars are high compression (10.5:1 IIRC) they don't like boost. So supercharging isn't gonna happen.
Although from what I am told. The Shelby Series One (which used the 4.0L Aurora V8) did have an optional supercharger. So maybe there is something that can be learned from there.
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Post by wfooshee on Mar 18, 2015 21:51:06 GMT -6
One wonders if they changed pistons or something to reduce compression..... I can't find anything stated anywhere other than the Aurora's 10.3:1, though.
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RCA1186
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Post by RCA1186 on Mar 19, 2015 6:12:24 GMT -6
there isn't much room in our engine compartments, but we've managed to put 4.6 L northstars in there somehow! The 4.6 and the 4.0 are the same size on the outside. |
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Mar 19, 2015 6:33:02 GMT -6
It is my belief that Aurora engines are premium V engines and I will not call them a Northstar. Northstar Performance is working on putting together a supercharged 4.6, and they are working on doing their own tuning, so we will see how that works out. |
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Post by sall on Mar 19, 2015 6:55:20 GMT -6
Would still love to see someone do a rear mount turbo. Who wants to buy me parts?
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98redaurora
Aurora Driver
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Post by 98redaurora on Mar 19, 2015 8:23:21 GMT -6
Supercharged 4.6 Aurora.. HECK YEAH |
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Post by wfooshee on Mar 19, 2015 9:54:35 GMT -6
If someone says, "I'm building a Northstar engine," they're probably referring to the Cadillac 4.6. That doesn't make the Aurora not a Northstar. It is the same but for displacement. Even GM called it a Northstar when they used the 4.0 at Le Mans. As for turbo?  I wonder if there's room? And a LOT of heat to do something with..... I'd rather supercharge if I were feeling the need. (But I'm not going to do either. ) |
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Post by theRhinelander on Mar 19, 2015 9:57:18 GMT -6
Since Northstars are high compression (10.5:1 IIRC) they don't like boost. So supercharging isn't gonna happen. Although from what I am told. The Shelby Series One (which used the 4.0L Aurora V8) did have an optional supercharger. So maybe there is something that can be learned from there. the compression ratio for my shortstar is 9.3:1 according to the wiki, not entirely sure but it sounds like it doesn't have as much compression as its big brothers. Maybe it could handle a supercharger/turbo, though it would probably have to be small because of limited space in the engine bay |
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RCA1186
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Post by RCA1186 on Mar 19, 2015 10:46:25 GMT -6
Isn't the compression lower on 2G V8's compared to the classic, or was that just the L37 they did that to in the 2000 plus engines?
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98redaurora
Aurora Driver
This is not your fathers Oldsmobile.
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Post by 98redaurora on Mar 19, 2015 11:04:13 GMT -6
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Post by theRhinelander on Mar 19, 2015 11:19:36 GMT -6
Isn't the compression lower on 2G V8's compared to the classic, or was that just the L37 they did that to in the 2000 plus engines? not entirely sure but that would make sense. In the classic L47 you have to use premium so the engine won't knock, which I'm guessing is from the high compression, where as the 01-03 can use regular, reducing compression would make that possible. premium has a higher octane rating, thus making it harder to ignite and cause knocking |
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Post by sall on Mar 19, 2015 11:28:08 GMT -6
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Post by sall on Mar 19, 2015 11:41:55 GMT -6
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Mar 19, 2015 18:26:40 GMT -6
...looks AJ and N* performance are/were the ones working together. Both of which have been around here before.  |
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plato442
Aurora Driver
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Oldsmobile...
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Post by plato442 on Mar 20, 2015 11:22:10 GMT -6
Again, The Aurora V8 is a northstar style engine, NOT a northstar. Northstar is used to designate the 4.6L displacement.
and yes, the northstar engine (4.6L) will fit in the auroras since they are the same dimensions.
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Post by lkraft92 on Mar 20, 2015 14:49:37 GMT -6
well back to the original question. there are some transmissions i have been looking into. there is a company called Sadev that builds racing transmissions. they have 2wd transaxles for racing applications with a 5 or 6 speed sequential shifter. i know its not the type of manual your looking for, but it is still a manual. i'm not sure how they would fit, but i bet an adapter plate could be made to mate the transmission to the motor. i don't know how many of you know Ken Block and the Gymkhana videos, but the car for Gymkhana 7, the "Hoonicorn," had a Sadev transmission and diffs. I know that converting an aurora to manual, but this might be the best option that i have found.
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Post by sall on Mar 20, 2015 15:27:11 GMT -6
When the Getrag 283 bolts up with few modification it would be the best option IMO. I guess it is a pretty stout trans with some further searching. Then all the modifications and parts needed otherwise. It would be nice to find a build log on that Grand Prix though. Guy even said in his youtube video,"...Nice but more trouble than it was worth. Next time auto with tap shift."
TCM-2000 TCU + TCM-4102 4t80e harness + paddle shifter would probably do the trick minus the factory PCM probably not being happy.
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Putting a manual in the Aurora is a no-go, unless you want a $150,000 Aurora.... 
I wonder if there's room? And a LOT of heat to do something with..... I'd rather supercharge if I were feeling the need. (But I'm not going to do either. 
