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Post by twinswin on Jun 29, 2005 19:05:14 GMT -6
I would like to have a hints and tips pinned post by Aurora40 on washing/bug and tar removal/polishing/waxing from begining to end. Maybe even with pictures and product recommendations if possible. I wash almost every week by hand and never know if and when I should be waxing or even if my washing/waxing method is correct. This would be very helpful for us exterior car midgets to be sure. Any possibility you could do this for us some time?
Thanks in advance BaJ
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 29, 2005 19:17:32 GMT -6
Good lord! How about if you have some questions, ask 'em up? It's hard to write a thorough thing on car care because there are sooo many aspects to it. There are also a lot of good guides already written by people a lot better at it than me. One thing with waxing, you can never wax too often. Worst case, the wax on the car was still doing ok, and now it's even fresher. One thing to watch for, is when you are drying the car. Notice how the drying towel will slide across the car when you'd just waxed it a week or two ago. And notice how that diminishes over time. When the towel feels like it's dragging, you need to rewax. But really, it's often easier to rewax before that point (as contaminantes would have washed off easier, the coat of wax will go on easier, etc) than to wait until you *need* more wax. How often do you wash the car, and how often are you currently waxing it? What is your current method of wax, and what product are you using?
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Jun 29, 2005 20:10:39 GMT -6
Yeah 40. In addition, would you also give us all a Brief definition of the universe please?
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Post by twinswin on Jun 30, 2005 2:00:20 GMT -6
On the new/now old site didn't you post something along these lines? Maybe I was mistaken. Anyway for about a month now I have been washing by hand once every week or two. I use one of those Mr Clean no spot things and a brush with featherd tips on the bristles. Spray the soap on, brush it, rinse it, spray the no spot water on, then dry with a chamois. Not sure if using the brush is the best practice or not. If not what should one use as a cleaning instrument? Terry towels or what? After that process the last few times I got the bright idea to wax and now I am kind of addicted to it. So for wax #1 I started with a layer of NXT. Then upon reading some of your posts either here or on the other site I discovered to my amazement that there is a cleaning and polishing step or two which I skipped the first time. So I got some scratch x to try to take some of the swirls out that were there when I got the car. Very deep, mostly on the trunk. Also picked up some of the Meguiars step 2 Deep Crystal Polish and the step 3 Deep Crystal carnauba wax. So on wax 2 I used the scrach x (no clue how much to put on and how much to work it in if at all) followed by the polish (no clue on how to work with the stuff) followed by the wax. I just washed and used the carnauba wax for the third waxing. I am pleased with the outcome but because its such an improvement over the never waxed appearance of the car previously. Does the scratch x work as the first step (paint cleaner) or is that a different product altogether? Does the scratch x take the wax off down to the clear coat so where its used am I starting over with no wax in that area? I am guessing that the scratch x takes off a small amount of clear coat with each use and if so obviously I would be removing the wax. Is it safe/beneficial to use different types of wax on top of each other or should you always do the 3 steps so to speak when waxing and stick with either the nxt or the carnauba as the final finish? Again thanks for your help, BaJ PS Please start a new thread for the brief definition of the universe because I really dislike long, run on posts.
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Post by Letitroll98 on Jun 30, 2005 7:46:13 GMT -6
I'll kick in here if it's ok because I found out something about the Meguiars products that I sort of trashed on the v2 board. The Deep Cyrstal product line (that I used) is their cheaper line with their Gold Class being the line Aurora40 raves about. I would assume the GC line to be similar or superior in performance to the Mother's products I like because those two lines have similar pricing, whereas the Deep Crystal line is about 1/2 the cost. I was told by others that the DC line is a cost leader and moves well on shelves because of it, but don't buy it. ScratchX is their consumer product swirl remover and yes, it's a mild abrasive product. They have several chemical cleaners that you would use on a more regular basis, the "step one" in both the GC and DC lines. Either should be used only every six months or so to clean oxidation. The step two is a glaze and can be used anytime you want to apply the step three carnuba wax, or you can just refresh with the step three. I believe the NXT is an acrylic based wax and will give more of a shine than a deep polish, some tipsters have suggested an acrylic coating under a carnuba wax for maximum effect. For in between times car washes, you can use one of the wax as you dry detailer sprays. Meguiars also makes a complete line of professional products under their Mirror Glaze brand. You have to mine down a ways, but all of these can be seen on their web site here, www.meguiars.com/index.cfm as well as the line I like the best, Mother's which you can read about here, www.mothers.com/ Lastly, try running a search on this site, much has already been posted. Good luck with your detailing and glad to have another person who cares. Edit: P.S. An explaination of the universe can be read here www.generationterrorists.com/quotes/abhotswh.html
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Jun 30, 2005 8:10:29 GMT -6
Oh great. More thinking from "Man." This is the same crowd that used to say the world is flat and the earth is the center of the universe! No thanks.
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Jun 30, 2005 8:33:50 GMT -6
Anyhow Letitroll ~ Thanks for the explanation on the Meguiars products! I did not realize that there was such a difference. I have some Pinnacle Soveriegn Wax I am going to give a try this weekend. Will let you know, thanks to a good friend here, how it goes!
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 30, 2005 8:45:01 GMT -6
Ok, that's some good info BaJ, so hopefully this will be more helpful. I may have written up a more complete post on the old board, but I don't recall doing so. I can see if I can dig anything up? So for washing, I would suggest you use a chenille sponge or mitt, or a sheepskin mitt. I don't trust brushes not to scratch. I would also worry about the build-up of grit in them over time. I can throw my chenille or sheepskin mitts in the washing machine, you can't really do that with a brush. I wouldn't wash with a terry towel, they don't have a very deep nap to hold dirt away from the paint. You can use a high-quality terry towel to dry with if you want, or you can use the chamois you've been using. I also dislike chamois because they don't have any nap to keep dirt away, but also because they are hard to clean. You can only rinse them off. Clean tools = clean car. However, you are the one who can see and feel the tools. So if in your evaluation they seem up to the task, then that's what really matters. For the rest, Scratch-X is more of a spot-product. The best way to use it is probably with a terry towel folded up into a thickish square. Or fold a section of a towel up. Something around 2x2" and maybe 1" tall or so. You'll have to put some elbow grease in, and work the Scratch-X into the paint. It's really for removing scratches and swirls from spots. Not for prepping the whole car. It will remove any wax, as will pretty much any polishing/cleaning product. To clean/polish the entire car, I would suggest either the Deep Crystal Step #1, or the Mirror Glaze #9. Step #1 is more of a chemical cleaner, and will remove any light oxidation, staining, etc. This will require less physical effort, and is a good prep step every so often (once a year, maybe twice, or more depending on how your car is treated). Things to look for when using it are maybe slight dulling of the reflections on the paint, staining left behind from bugs, bird poop, water spots, sap, etc. Mirror Glaze #9 is more of an abrasive polish. It is quite mild, though, and great for hand use. While it will also address some of the things that a chemical cleaner will, it will do it via abrasion, which means it will always remove slight amounts of paint (very slight, though, it's quite mild), and it means you will have to use a bit more effort in working it in (not a ton like with Scratch-X, but some). It will be more effective at removing or reducing light swirl marks, spiderwebbing, and scratches. It is also a great prep step once a year or so, depending on the conditions your car is exposed to. #9 will also leave some glaze-like gloss behind, while chemical cleaners typically do not. The Step #2 "Polish" is really a glaze, it has no corrective ability, but will add gloss and brightness to paint. It can correct dull paint to some degree, but usually the effect isn't long-term in the way a cleaner or abrasive polish is. However, after correcting issues with a cleaner or abrasive polish, it can add some nice pop to the paint before waxing. Step #3 Carnauba wax, and NXT Tech wax are both nice waxes. You can use either over any step. You might find NXT works better by itself for the times you just wax, because it has a very slight cleaning ability. However, I'd say use whichever you feel like using at the time. Any wax is better than none, so use whichever you find easier to use, better looking, longer lasting, better smelling, or whatever it is that does it for you in a wax. Dan, you are sort of correct there. The Gold Class and NXT lines are part of the consumer line of Meguiar's products, as are the Deep Crystal lines. Of course there are price-point differences and such, but the Deep Crystal line is a good lineup, especially the Step #1. Mothers has a "step" line that is quite similar, as well as having more expensive consumer lines like the Gold Class/NXT line of Meguiar's (like the Mothers Reflections line). What you say is better or worse, someone else will easily have the opposite opinion. I think, generally, you can do about the same things with the product lines of any manufacturer. The differences are mostly in your technique, and in what you are looking for from a product. Then whichever line matches you the most, will be the one you like. But it's different for different people, and can be different for different car paints too. Mothers makes some nice products, and you could easily substitute their Step 1-3 in the descriptions I gave above. And other companies like Eagle One, and many more, also make nice products. I tend to use the Mirror Glaze and Detailer line of Meguiar's, as the products tend to be more specialized, but also tend to require a bit more technique to use. I still have problems from time to time with getting the results and behavior from the products I want, though I'm not a pro and thus don't spend as much time using these products. As a generalization, they are not quite as user-friendly as the consumer line has to be, though can be a bit more effective or powerful at their job. Hopefully I don't "rave" about any of the product lines I use. There are lots and lots of companies that make nice products, and I use the ones that seem to suit me. I could probably get similar results from a lot of products, and a lot of the result I get is due to the effort put in, not just from the product I used. There are a few products I rave about because to me they seem to really stand out in that there aren't comparable products from competitors, or the results are just so easy or so good. But there aren't a lot of products I feel that way about, and they aren't all from Meguiar's.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 30, 2005 8:54:17 GMT -6
Anyhow Letitroll ~ Thanks for the explanation on the Meguiars products! I did not realize that there was such a difference. I have some Pinnacle Soveriegn Wax I am going to give a try this weekend. Will let you know, thanks to a good friend here, how it goes! The Klasse All-In-One you have to try is also a chemical cleaner. It will help with oxidation, staining, and such. It also leaves behind an acrylic protection. So use this as the first step. You don't really have to work it in much, and you should notice that the paint will look a bit brighter and clearer. Then you can apply the Pinnacle Liquid Souveran after you wipe off the Klasse AIO. As an aside, if you have any Klasse AIO left afterwards, it's quite a versatile product. Try it on a porcelain sink or laminate countertop (I wouldn't risk it on a solid-surface counter, though it would probably work fine).
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Post by Letitroll98 on Jun 30, 2005 9:24:57 GMT -6
Good post and it's ok to rave on a product if you know what you're talking about, perhaps we'll call it 'mentioned often'. And yes 40, I think you're quite right about the Meguiars being more specialized, with a focus on professional products that filter down to the consumer lines. If you want a specific product for a specific goal and need to find it on a local store shelf or supply house, Meguiars seems to be the one. I haven't tried it and was only told this by consumers and store personnel I asked, but they claim the Gold Class line is the Meguiars line comparable to the Mother's 'Classic' or California Gold line in price and quality. It was these folks who savaged the DC line, I thought it an ok product worth the lower asking price. I hope to get around to trying all these high end mail order products that you've mentioned in the months to come.
Where is our new "Product Recommendation" thread topic listing? Get on the ball here man.
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Jun 30, 2005 9:37:33 GMT -6
Anyhow Letitroll ~ Thanks for the explanation on the Meguiars products! I did not realize that there was such a difference. I have some Pinnacle Soveriegn Wax I am going to give a try this weekend. Will let you know, thanks to a good friend here, how it goes! The Klasse All-In-One you have to try is also a chemical cleaner. It will help with oxidation, staining, and such. It also leaves behind an acrylic protection. So use this as the first step. You don't really have to work it in much, and you should notice that the paint will look a bit brighter and clearer. Then you can apply the Pinnacle Liquid Souveran after you wipe off the Klasse AIO. As an aside, if you have any Klasse AIO left afterwards, it's quite a versatile product. Try it on a porcelain sink or laminate countertop (I wouldn't risk it on a solid-surface counter, though it would probably work fine). Thanks Bob. Now, how am I to be applying the Klasse?
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Jun 30, 2005 9:39:51 GMT -6
Yeah, Dan. That's an excellent suggestion for the "Product Recommendation" posting area!
Has anyone used the "303 Protectant" on their tailights and the middle section (classics)?
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Post by Aurora40 on Jun 30, 2005 9:54:04 GMT -6
Thanks Bob. Now, how am I to be applying the Klasse? Dennis, just wash the car and dry it. Then apply the Klasse to a foam applicator if you have one, or fold up a terry towel into about a 2x2" square (roughly, it can be rectangular or whatever) with a few layers thick so it applies more evenly. Then put a bit of AIO on the face and apply it to the paint. A dime-sized drop will probably go a long way, maybe 1/4 of the hood depending on how much cleaning action your paint needs. Use more if you need to, but don't use a lot just to use a lot. You can also lightly moisten the applicator with water first. Then add more AIO as needed, you probably won't need to add a dime-sized drop once the pad has some product on it. You want to use light to no pressure. If more cleaning is needed, make a few passes with light pressure. Rotate the face of the terry as needed. With a foam applicator, you can probably do the whole car with one or two pads depending on how much cleaning your paint needs. You can do the whole car and then buff it off, or do a section at a time. Whatever you prefer. It doesn't need to sit, but will still buff off easily if it does. I've never tried 303 on hard plastics, but it should work ok. What are you trying to accomplish with using it? It won't clean anything really. But should help to protect it if that's what you are looking for. A product like Meguiar's PlastX will have more cleaning/polishing ability. And I really like a product called "Plexus" that has very light cleaning ability and leaves protection on plastics.
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Jun 30, 2005 13:36:22 GMT -6
Yeah the Plexus sounds like what I would desire. I am trying to get the plastic to shine up more. The fine scratches tend to take away the shine.
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Post by bLACk AurOrA on Jun 30, 2005 19:43:08 GMT -6
deisle fuel is good for removing tar
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Post by twinswin on Jul 1, 2005 10:12:24 GMT -6
Great info by all. More questions: Does the step #2 in the Meguiars line remove the old wax? Is there a rule of thumb as to how much time to spend working a wax onto the surface? Seems like if you just wipe it on, let it dry and wipe it off it couldnt do much.
Thanks again, BaJ
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Post by bLACk AurOrA on Jul 1, 2005 10:33:48 GMT -6
step 2 polishes the car. if any would remove old wax it would be step 1.
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Post by Aurora40 on Jul 1, 2005 10:44:15 GMT -6
Great info by all. More questions: Does the step #2 in the Meguiars line remove the old wax? Is there a rule of thumb as to how much time to spend working a wax onto the surface? Seems like if you just wipe it on, let it dry and wipe it off it couldnt do much. Thanks again, BaJ The Step #2 is unlikely to remove wax. However, it depends on how old the wax is, and how you apply it. But it's basically just a glaze. You do need to wax after you use it, as the glaze offers no real protection. Usually when you apply a wax to the surface, you want to wait until it has hazed before you wipe it off. The hazing is from the solvents/carriers evaporating off, leaving a dry, dusty finish behind. When you wipe it off, you are just wiping off the excess, some of it will still be stuck to the paint.
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Post by TJM on Jul 11, 2005 9:23:22 GMT -6
OK - I finally took some selfish time away from my honey-do list to get some gleam back.
Washed her twice with Turtle Wax car wash; Ive been working on the same gallon of this stuff for two years and probably have another two to go and I wash once, sometimes twice a week. Was all accessible areas including door and trunk jambs (did engine compartment last week). A quick 80 mph jaunt down the HW dries her off nicely with just a "V" down the back window to dry by hand.
I started with Meguiars step one cleaner and applied it twice being sure to get into the groves of the side molding as well as the windshield and chromes. The lower half of the car showed unbelievable improvement as well as the nose. It also did a good job cleaning the rubber window trim etc.
Step two seemed to even out the finish somehow and brought out a brilliance I had almost forgotten.
Step three achieved the gleam I was hoping for and will help keep my chromes and door jambs clean.
My main reason for this post is to express my amazement regarding how easy this stuff came off. My driveway does not lend itself to shade at all and the temps were close to 90* this weekend. My semi-balding head is a little burnt but it was worth it.
The first two steps came off as easily as they went on. Step three wax had a trick to it. Wipe it off lightly and without trying to get a gloss on the first pass. A residue is left behind that is easily removed when giving the section a second wipe. No hard buffing or going back to "missed" areas even in direct sun.
Toothbrush detail the moldings, door handles etc. and a final wash and HW drying cycle. BEAUTY!
6 hours all by hand.
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Zipzag
Aurora Watcher
96 Aurora , GM Collision Tech
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Post by Zipzag on Aug 1, 2005 13:43:52 GMT -6
deisel fuels have high amounts of acids in it not to metion sylicons , what we use in the trade is accytone not as bad as deisel fuel, and to remove tree sap we only run cold water from a hose and rub it out . We dont use chemicals, Now as far as Waxing and buffing goes we start with a wet sand , 1600-1800 grit to remove any imperfetions like light scratches , and the odd little thing , then we take a clear coat buffing compound at about a 2400 grit and buff the whole car down to remove oxidiaion and old wax , after buffing it all out the car will usualy shine , then u put the wax on , preferably a non silicon wax, what ever flavour u like , then u can buff that all in or hand wipe it , after that to keep the shine and to keep the wax from oxidizing you seal it . No expencive products just technic !
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Post by Aurora40 on Aug 1, 2005 15:15:54 GMT -6
Now as far as Waxing and buffing goes we start with a wet sand , 1600-1800 grit to remove any imperfetions like light scratches , and the odd little thing , then we take a clear coat buffing compound at about a 2400 grit and buff the whole car down to remove oxidiaion and old wax , after buffing it all out the car will usualy shine You do this for all your exterior details? Do you do it for repeat customers?
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Post by BuccaneersFan on Aug 1, 2005 15:22:56 GMT -6
deisel fuels have high amounts of acids in it not to metion sylicons , what we use in the trade is accytone not as bad as deisel fuel, and to remove tree sap we only run cold water from a hose and rub it out . We dont use chemicals, Now as far as Waxing and buffing goes we start with a wet sand , 1600-1800 grit to remove any imperfetions like light scratches , and the odd little thing , then we take a clear coat buffing compound at about a 2400 grit and buff the whole car down to remove oxidiaion and old wax , after buffing it all out the car will usualy shine , then u put the wax on , preferably a non silicon wax, what ever flavour u like , then u can buff that all in or hand wipe it , after that to keep the shine and to keep the wax from oxidizing you seal it . No expencive products just technic ! Where can you get a good buffing compound?
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Aug 4, 2005 8:46:51 GMT -6
You wet sand clear coat? ??
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Post by stickking1 on Aug 8, 2005 5:11:05 GMT -6
You wet sand clear coat? ?? I'm ok with the wet-sanding clear coat, as I've done this plenty of times after painting vehicles...but never for something like "light scratches"....eegads, the sandpaper doesn't come out except for the mightiest of detailing problems. And what are you using to "seal" after the coat of wax??
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Zipzag
Aurora Watcher
96 Aurora , GM Collision Tech
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Post by Zipzag on Aug 15, 2005 19:25:19 GMT -6
Well what would u use to sand out scratches? and as far as a sealer goes, ask you auto supplier , such as car quest
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Zipzag
Aurora Watcher
96 Aurora , GM Collision Tech
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Post by Zipzag on Aug 15, 2005 19:27:03 GMT -6
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Zipzag
Aurora Watcher
96 Aurora , GM Collision Tech
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Post by Zipzag on Aug 15, 2005 19:27:49 GMT -6
Now as far as Waxing and buffing goes we start with a wet sand , 1600-1800 grit to remove any imperfetions like light scratches , and the odd little thing , then we take a clear coat buffing compound at about a 2400 grit and buff the whole car down to remove oxidiaion and old wax , after buffing it all out the car will usualy shine You do this for all your exterior details? Do you do it for repeat customers? It only takes money
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Zipzag
Aurora Watcher
96 Aurora , GM Collision Tech
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Post by Zipzag on Aug 15, 2005 19:30:49 GMT -6
You wet sand clear coat? ?? I'm ok with the wet-sanding clear coat, as I've done this plenty of times after painting vehicles...but never for something like "light scratches"....eegads, the sandpaper doesn't come out except for the mightiest of detailing problems. And what are you using to "seal" after the coat of wax?? Compound sealer, i think its called, what ever the dealership uses at the time
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Post by oldsauroraman1 on Aug 27, 2005 13:15:28 GMT -6
Never heard of that. Who makes it?
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Post by stickking1 on Aug 29, 2005 4:32:46 GMT -6
Wet sanding just seemed a bit aggressive for "light scratches", especially on repeat jobs...and I must admit, I've never heard of sealing after the wax. Before the wax, sure...after, nope.
I'd love to know the product line(s) your shop uses.
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