XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Apr 2, 2013 8:03:58 GMT -6
That may be something to look into, I hope the mail-in tune would be enough to handle that. We don't have the ability to tune Auroras or I would have it tuned for you here. Depending on how good the tuner is they can get it pretty good with a mail-in tune as far as fuel trims and timing go, but the best way to do it is in the car on a dyno or on the road.
I told our engine guys what you were doing and that Gator had been running it successfully with no tune for a while and they were a little concerned, I guess we'll see! It might not be a bad idea to take it to a dyno out there or give it a few good WOT runs to make sure it isn't pinging or anything before you make the trek to Kansas City. Higher octane gas always helps, but depending on how much of a change it is you might need more than that.
I wonder if the tuners could copy the tables over from a caddy PCM to the Aurora PCM? then it would behave just like a stock caddy PCM with that engine but would still know that it was an Aurora. Is that what they did?
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Post by lkraft92 on Apr 2, 2013 10:51:47 GMT -6
sweet, you got a tuned pcm for your 4.6. i cant wait yo see this on the dyno and see what kind of numbers you get. keep up the good work. if this goes well, i just might have you do mine whenever my motor goes out.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Apr 2, 2013 19:14:04 GMT -6
That may be something to look into, I hope the mail-in tune would be enough to handle that. We don't have the ability to tune Auroras or I would have it tuned for you here. Depending on how good the tuner is they can get it pretty good with a mail-in tune as far as fuel trims and timing go, but the best way to do it is in the car on a dyno or on the road. I told our engine guys what you were doing and that Gator had been running it successfully with no tune for a while and they were a little concerned, I guess we'll see! It might not be a bad idea to take it to a dyno out there or give it a few good WOT runs to make sure it isn't pinging or anything before you make the trek to Kansas City. Higher octane gas always helps, but depending on how much of a change it is you might need more than that. I wonder if the tuners could copy the tables over from a caddy PCM to the Aurora PCM? then it would behave just like a stock caddy PCM with that engine but would still know that it was an Aurora. Is that what they did? This does not answer all your questions, but it does answer some. I knew the answers to some of the questions but was working on wording, but Ion explained it better in an email. Full support! No worries mon! From Ion at Madtuners: "I looked at your thread the other day and I saw someone mentioning the safety of running this PCM on your engine. It should definitely be safer to run than an Aurora PCM because from what I have seen in the calibrations, the Aurora PCM should run quite lean at full throttle with a 4.6 L. Keep in mind that this is the first calibration for such a conversion on a 96-99. If for some reason it is necessary to do further tweaks (though I don't think so, given your current modifications), we can working something out (for example, I can mail you a cable with my tuning software and you can load the updates yourself)."
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Apr 2, 2013 19:16:31 GMT -6
sweet, you got a tuned pcm for your 4.6. i cant wait yo see this on the dyno and see what kind of numbers you get. keep up the good work. if this goes well, i just might have you do mine whenever my motor goes out. Thank you! Sounds good, we can get you all fixed up. ACNA 48 hr motor swap weekend meet, lol. A lot of that 48hrs we would be sleeping. lol
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Apr 2, 2013 21:31:05 GMT -6
Good to hear! That is how mail-order tunes usually work. I wonder what software he is using, did you think to ask? We use HP Tuners here, but they don't have any credits available for the Aurora. I checked haha. The tune is locked to the specific cable for our software, I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same for whatever he is using.
Maybe you could ask him if there is any way for you to log your information (Idle, through the gears, a couple of WOT passes) and send it to him for review? That would be the best way to ensure your tune was perfect, I think!
Would you ask him? I would feel really comfortable using him if he offered that kind of feedback and support.
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Apr 3, 2013 6:39:55 GMT -6
Yeah, I can ask. I have access to some newer Snap On scanners. Do you think those would be able to log the information? There is also a pay to go dyno within 45 minutes of my house. I see the price just got lowered a little for Northstar tunes. www.madtuner.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=150&category_id=48&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26If anyone wants to send one in but can't take your pcm out for a week I can help. I have pcms people can borrow, I can send them directly to Madtuner. I can get them to him fast, as he is only a state away. Then when you get your tuned pcm, send me a pcm back or arrange to buy mine($25). I have maybe 3 extra pcms now, so I can do that until my box is empty. Remember, even after I have mine going, it will still be a different version of the Aurora. To this date, no one has tuned a '96-'99 Aurora with a 4.0 and fully documented it. You could still be the first person to do this, and show what the 4.0 can really do. Will we ever know? Pics or videos?
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Post by renaldo0613 on Apr 3, 2013 7:15:57 GMT -6
Ahhhhhhhh the temptation!!! I've got to get my transmission issue fixed first. Then I will gladly do that tune. That program sounds pretty good randy. Might I suggest you do a $25 deposit any way just in case folks forget to send u there pcm (like me) lol, and then refund em once u get it. I think collins does something like that.
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Post by madtuner on Apr 3, 2013 8:52:01 GMT -6
Good to hear! That is how mail-order tunes usually work. I wonder what software he is using, did you think to ask? We use HP Tuners here, but they don't have any credits available for the Aurora. I checked haha. The tune is locked to the specific cable for our software, I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same for whatever he is using. Maybe you could ask him if there is any way for you to log your information (Idle, through the gears, a couple of WOT passes) and send it to him for review? That would be the best way to ensure your tune was perfect, I think! Would you ask him? I would feel really comfortable using him if he offered that kind of feedback and support. xjsman89, All the tuning software we use for Northstar vehicles has been developed by ourselves. There is no existing commercial software available to tune '96-'06 4.0 and 4.6L Northstar engines. You can purchase a dealer cable from our website and along with our own software, you will be able to install the calibrations yourself on any Northstar controller. Datalogging on Randall's setup is not essential given that this is an almost stock engine. We are currently working on implementing a datalogging function in our flashing software, though CAN vehicles (2004+) are of a higher priority at the moment. It would be helpful if Randall datalogged the engine with a Snap-on at full throttle to monitor knock retard, but the timing used on his calibration is quite safe. So, the other essential item remains the air/fuel ratio, which I am guessing you will supply with the dyno run.
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Apr 3, 2013 9:44:05 GMT -6
If the air/fuel can be taken with the snap on tool (as I believe it can, ours can at least) then a Dyno run or two at WOT would be perfect to send to you guys. I know with all that we do here when we put a rowdy motor in a car the car doesn't touch the road until it has been tuned, but like you said being an almost stock engine without any crazy performance numbers it may not have the same requirements. Since it is a 4.6 in a 4.0 car though I would be worried about using a straight 4.0 PCM without modification.
I know actual air/fuel numbers would be best to tune from, but would it work to just paste the tables from a 4.6 PCM on top of the ones on the 4.0 PCM?
Randy and I are 2.5-3 hours away, which is a long way to drive if it actually is pinging. I was thinking a local dyno would be good to get numbers for you to do the first revision from, then when you think you've got the tune down he can come down here for fun and send some more data to you as well.
Cool that you guys have developed your own software! You're the first that I've heard of to support the northstar. Is it based off of another tuning software at all, or completely your own?
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Post by madtuner on Apr 3, 2013 10:11:28 GMT -6
If the air/fuel can be taken with the snap on tool (as I believe it can, ours can at least) then a Dyno run or two at WOT would be perfect to send to you guys. I know with all that we do here when we put a rowdy motor in a car the car doesn't touch the road until it has been tuned, but like you said being an almost stock engine without any crazy performance numbers it may not have the same requirements. Since it is a 4.6 in a 4.0 car though I would be worried about using a straight 4.0 PCM without modification. I know actual air/fuel numbers would be best to tune from, but would it work to just paste the tables from a 4.6 PCM on top of the ones on the 4.0 PCM? Randy and I are 2.5-3 hours away, which is a long way to drive if it actually is pinging. I was thinking a local dyno would be good to get numbers for you to do the first revision from, then when you think you've got the tune down he can come down here for fun and send some more data to you as well. Cool that you guys have developed your own software! You're the first that I've heard of to support the northstar. Is it based off of another tuning software at all, or completely your own? I would prefer to have some wideband air/fuel ratio numbers because the scanned air/fuel ratio is only an estimation (these cars are equipped with narrowband oxygen sensors). Most parameters have been transplanted from a 4.6L calibration before making additional changes. There are quite a few changes between the two engines and it is possible that a switch or value somewhere not carried over might affect driveability (which is why I mentioned that additional tweaks MAY be necessary, though I think he will be fine). In any case, it should definitely be much safer to run than a stock 4.0 PCM, Autobahn or otherwise. There is no reason at all why there should be any pinging. Our software is written from scratch.
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Post by shelbyracing on Apr 3, 2013 14:19:36 GMT -6
madtuner, I am wanting a tune badly but haven't found a reasonable price. I am a little worried about a mail tune. I have a 4.0 that has been modified for a Shelby Series 1. All I know for sure is that it has the vin9 cams from a 300hp STS (and prob springs). Peak hp is @ 6,500 rpms, with 7,200 rev limit. I am wanting my shift points at 6,9-7,000 and rev limit corrected. (6,100 now). It is also running lean in the upper band. I have a true dual X pipe exhaust as well with Magnaflows. (No real restrictions and pulls a mild vacuum at 6k) I am hindered with torque management as well (causes backfire 1-2 shift.) Sorry for posting this here just wanted to be sure it was seen
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Apr 3, 2013 14:44:27 GMT -6
Post a link to a new thread with that info, Shelby. He will be able to go into more detail there. Thanks for all the posts so far, madtuner. We have had multiple people say they can tune our cars but so far no one has ever made a legitimate effort to show us that they can do it at all, let alone send a tune to a member to try it out.
We have a sniffer here that we can stick on the end of the tail pipe with a wideband to grab data as well as a wideband that will screw into a stock O2 sensor bung. Either one of those could be used to capture data and send to them which will result in a better tune. It's almost 9.5 hours from Kentucky to Kansas, though, so that isn't really an option. haha
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Post by madtuner on Apr 3, 2013 17:00:34 GMT -6
Post a link to a new thread with that info, Shelby. He will be able to go into more detail there. Thanks for all the posts so far, madtuner. We have had multiple people say they can tune our cars but so far no one has ever made a legitimate effort to show us that they can do it at all, let alone send a tune to a member to try it out. We have a sniffer here that we can stick on the end of the tail pipe with a wideband to grab data as well as a wideband that will screw into a stock O2 sensor bung. Either one of those could be used to capture data and send to them which will result in a better tune. It's almost 9.5 hours from Kentucky to Kansas, though, so that isn't really an option. haha I generally prefer Dynojet brand dynos and they happen to be the most widely used these days for this sort of thing. Perhaps their locator will help Randy locate a closer one: www.dynojet.com/dyno_centers/list_automotive.aspxI would like to work a little more with a local, stock or close to stock 96-99 Aurora on such things such as improved gas mileage. If a local member would like to stop by on a weekend and dedicate a few hours to it, I will provide him or her a free tune. I do ask that it is a car in good condition and which has been regularly maintained. shelbyracing, I believe we already spoke and you can contact me via e-mail if you would like to discuss some of these questions in more detail. I would like to tune your car in person though and it will probably take a few hours to do so properly.
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Apr 3, 2013 17:56:15 GMT -6
We have a few members close (Zach?) that I'm sure would love a chance to work with you.
We have a four wheel Mustang Dyno here at work. I like having the load cell because it returns more reasonable numbers, but they all work! If we're just logging data on ours it will work the same.
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Post by shelbyracing on Apr 3, 2013 18:49:35 GMT -6
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Apr 4, 2013 6:40:06 GMT -6
The local pay to go dyno I mentioned earlier looks like it is a Dynojet.
Renaldo, thanks for the suggestion, I may do it that way.
I can't believe someone has not jumped in on that free tune offered above yet!! If I lived around there and didn't have going on what I do, I would be there the first possible weekend. Who doesn't want better gas mileage? lol This is very exciting times for the Aurora! ;D Let's do this!
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Post by sall on Apr 4, 2013 7:26:41 GMT -6
If I was closer I certainly would participate!
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Post by wireless on Apr 4, 2013 9:24:44 GMT -6
Where's he at? Kentucky? I'm just curious.
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Post by shelbyracing on Apr 4, 2013 10:10:40 GMT -6
He is in Illinois, Madtuner LLC 237 Acorn Dr. Streamwood, IL 60107
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Post by renaldo0613 on Apr 4, 2013 10:45:32 GMT -6
I would be all over that free tune if i was not 10hrs away in maryland
edit 11hrs away lol
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RCA1186
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Post by RCA1186 on Apr 4, 2013 11:10:13 GMT -6
hmmmm......55min drive...bone stock....63K miles, well maintained
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Apr 4, 2013 11:32:26 GMT -6
I forgot you were up there too, rob! Bone stock with 63k would be a great car to start on.
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Post by wireless on Apr 4, 2013 13:12:53 GMT -6
DO IT!
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Post by madtuner on Apr 4, 2013 13:44:21 GMT -6
hmmmm......55min drive...bone stock....63K miles, well maintained Please shoot me an e-mail at support@madtuner.com and we will set something up.
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RCA1186
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Post by RCA1186 on Apr 4, 2013 17:05:20 GMT -6
Email sent
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Apr 8, 2013 19:37:20 GMT -6
Got my sub-frame partially painted today, another coat or 2 and it should be good, I am not spending too much time on painting it. Got a little paint on my new used rear sway bar while I was at it and ordered new links for the install.
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Post by renaldo0613 on Apr 8, 2013 22:39:55 GMT -6
looking good
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Randy T.
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Post by Randy T. on Apr 9, 2013 6:22:38 GMT -6
Thank you!
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Post by sall on Apr 9, 2013 11:45:35 GMT -6
Yes, looking excellent. Crate me up a 4.6L Randy I bet you could get it and ship for cheaper than I get one here haha.
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Post by renaldo0613 on Apr 10, 2013 10:39:40 GMT -6
Yes, looking excellent. Crate me up a 4.6L Randy I bet you could get it and ship for cheaper than I get one here haha. Second on that list ;D
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