'97 Aurora 4.6 Installation

[Randy T.]

This thread is the beginning of my 4.6 swap, I will document the process along the way.

A little history on my '97 Aurora. It is the first Aurora I bought, when I got it, it had 136,000 miles, I swapped the drivetrain at 190k, but it did not last very long, the motor seemed not right from the start. I am at 221k now, the motor and trans are very strong, but I can not drive over 50 without it overheating. I hope to install studs in this 4.0 in the future, hopefully by the time this 4.6 blows, lol.

My introduction thread.

aurorah.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Intros&action=display&thread=6661

First drivetrain swap.

aurorah.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=1stgen&action=display&thread=18851&page=1


I now have a '98 vin "y" 4.6 275 hp 300 ft lbs of torque, I don't know much about the motor, but it looks pretty clean and oil leak free,it came from Texas. I am not sure why, but the freeze plugs all have a metal plate that say "removal will void warranty". Since I have not seen freeze plugs like that, I hope it might be some kind of rebuilt engine. I was not at work today, but went in after to see if it was there. It looks like they sat the oil pan on a corner and now it has oil coming out of it. Not very happy about that, but it is what it is, new oil pan is $50, and I can at least put a fresh reseal on it while it's apart. I don't want to use my 4.0 oil pan because I am going to keep oil in it while storing it.

I have a Cadillac vin "9" 3:71 trans I will be installing with the motor, same as an Autobahn Aurora. I also have a computer from a '99 vin "9" Cadillac I will try to run it with, if that doesn't work I will try an Autobahn computer, then if that doesn't work I will have to get an autobahn reflash for my car or possibly even a custom tune, whatever it takes, I will attempt to accomplish it. If it works, I will have a GXP type Aurora.

I have a new radiator coming in in the morning, I already have a newer '99 coolant tank and new thermostat I will be installing, the trans will get a new side cover filter and lower screens, along with all new fluid. I will be inspecting the coolant crossover gaskets and anything else that needs done on the engine before I install it, what I have seen so far looks pretty good.


Vin "9" computer, on top of 3 standard Aurora computers.



Vin "9" 3:71 transmission.



Vin "Y" 275 4.6, not my pink spray paint, it will be removed. lol I have not confirmed it's a "Y" yet, but it's supposed to be.

[XJSman89]

I'm loving all the pictures already. It's fitting that even with all of the Auroras you've had over the years, the swap is still going to #1. Can't wait to see this project happen, man.

When you make it to KC after the swap you can make all the dyno pulls you want on our rig, no charge. I'll even strap her down for you. ;D nothing like polishing off a perfect 4.6 build thread with some timeslips. We can make a couple pulls in my autobahn to compare yours to.

[oneye]

Go for it, Randy. Looks like you've got it under control already, and you won't be lacking for support from here.

[shelbyracing]

Sounds like a plan, I am curious though, why not Vin 9 cams? Seems like you'd get more use of everything with a simple intake cam swap. I know people act as there is no low end power but that is all speculation, I have towed around 4k lbs with mine up steep Ky hills and everything. There was no lack of torque what so ever.

[Marc]

I sure hope everything works out OK.

[Randy T.]

Feb 15, 2013 23:56:57 GMT -6 XJSman89 said:

I'm loving all the pictures already. It's fitting that even with all of the Auroras you've had over the years, the swap is still going to #1. Can't wait to see this project happen, man.

When you make it to KC after the swap you can make all the dyno pulls you want on our rig, no charge. I'll even strap her down for you. ;D nothing like polishing off a perfect 4.6 build thread with some timeslips. We can make a couple pulls in my autobahn to compare yours to.

Sounds like a plan, that will be fun.

[sall]

Details and pictures are nice but it is no different than swapping a 4.0L fellas. 4.6L has been done and pictured(Don;t remember the members right off the top of my head). Will make good resource none-the-less. I personally would never stick another N* without known history in without minimum of re-seal and block studding. I would say good luck but you have done a swap before so practice makes perfect haha.

[Randy T.]

Feb 16, 2013 6:33:04 GMT -6 oneye said:

Go for it, Randy. Looks like you've got it under control already, and you won't be lacking for support from here.

Thank you.

Feb 16, 2013 10:09:33 GMT -6 shelbyracing said:

Sounds like a plan, I am curious though, why not Vin 9 cams? Seems like you'd get more use of everything with a simple intake cam swap. I know people act as there is no low end power but that is all speculation, I have towed around 4k lbs with mine up steep Ky hills and everything. There was no lack of torque what so ever.

My 4.0 has overheating issues, that is why I am going with the whole motor replacement. If I end up fixing it and studding it, I may go with the vin 9 cams, really, I don't see why not. Obvious question. But, that is what your Shelby engine has in it, right? lol Yeah, I did basically chose the "Y" engine with the "9" trans because of everything I had read about it having more torque at lower rpms, but from what I see the info about our computers not being able to push a "9" motor is incorrect, it seems it gets it hp and torque from 6k and below, right where we would want it.

From Northstar engine series, I don't know how accurate this info is:


L37 (VIN "9")

1995–2002 Cadillac Eldorado ETC 300 hp (224 kW) @ 6000 rpm 295 lb·ft (400 N·m) @ 4400 rpm

1993 Cadillac Seville STS 295 hp (220 kW) @ 5600 rpm 290 lb·ft (393 N·m) @ 4400 rpm

1994–2004 Cadillac Seville STS 300 hp (224 kW) @ 6000 rpm 295 lb·ft (400 N·m) @ 4400 rpm

1996–2004 Cadillac DeVille Concours/DTS 300 hp (224 kW) @ 6000 rpm 295 lb·ft (400 N·m) @ 4400 rpm


LD8 (VIN "Y")

1995–2001 Cadillac Eldorado 275 hp (205 kW) @ 5750 rpm 300 lb·ft (407 N·m)

1995 Cadillac DeVille Concours 275 hp (205 kW) @ 5750 rpm 300 lb·ft (407 N·m)

1996–2001 Cadillac DeVille 275 hp (205 kW) @ 5750 rpm 300 lb·ft (407 N·m) @ 4000 rpm


L47

1995–2003 Oldsmobile Aurora 250 hp (186 kW) @ 5600 rpm 260 lb·ft (353 N·m) @ 4400 rpm

1999–2005 Shelby Series 1 320 hp (324 PS) @ 6500 rpm 290 lb·ft (390 N·m) @ 5000 rpm

[Randy T.]

Feb 16, 2013 11:12:03 GMT -6 sall said:

Details and pictures are nice but it is no different than swapping a 4.0L fellas. 4.6L has been done and pictured(Don;t remember the members right off the top of my head). Will make good resource none-the-less. I personally would never stick another N* without known history in without minimum of re-seal and block studding. I would say good luck but you have done a swap before so practice makes perfect haha.

I, and many members have seen and rode in an Aurora with a 4.6/3:48 trans, members name is Gator, a lot of my 4.0 parts are on his car. The pictures I provide will cover more than most people will show, they end up having camera problems, excuses, or the thread just dies out. If you have some thread links of completed 4.6 projects post them here and I will sticky them. I know there are a couple out there, no videos or anything, though. I have always wanted to see a 4.6 Aurora lined up with a 4.0. I will post the links about 4.6s I have bookmarked.

The engine appears to be leak free, and it comes with a guarantee. With these motors, though, it's always a roll of the dice, that's for sure, and you can't get that labor back. Same with the trans, these yards don't know if they work exactly like they should, it's all a gamble, hopefully it works out ok, if not, I will fix it. I don't really worry about it, lol.

4.6 Swap, Pics and Videos?

4.0 out 4.6 in ...

Prototyping 4.6 swapupdate 10/23/07

4.6 swap??

4.6L

Completed/In progress.

NinEFivEFourOH 4.6project

4.6 Install Complete

4.6 Swap... any suggestions?

[shelbyracing]

I meant having Vin 9 in your 4.6 while it's just sitting there waiting to be tinkered with
It would also be nice to see videos of a confirmed swap. I too am curious about how the numbers stack up against a 4.0 and my 4.0 ;D

[Randy T.]

Feb 16, 2013 12:37:18 GMT -6 shelbyracing said:

I meant having Vin 9 in your 4.6 while it's just sitting there waiting to be tinkered with
It would also be nice to see videos of a confirmed swap. I too am curious about how the numbers stack up against a 4.0 and my 4.0 ;D

O I C. Yeah, I will stick with this one for now, see how it works, I could change them in the future, though. Do you have to pull timing to swap the cams? How hard is it to do?

[shelbyracing]

I remember when I tore down my last motor. I think you do have to pull timing cover, but it's easy to do that. If you reset the lifters/ tensioners on the chain it should slack enough to pull the cams. Then I would tighten them back as much as I could manually before cranking on motor (I'm pretty sure they were hydraulically tensioned with oil pressure IIRC) I would just grab a metallic marker or chalk and mark point on chain and count teeth on sprocket from timing mark (or look in book for lining the timing marks up correctly) and unbolting swapping and bolting back should be a piece of cake with motor out of car.

Also check your timing gear bearing!! That is what messed up my previous motor. All other bearings were fine but that one had a 1/4" of wear So I assume that is the most finicky part of our internals. I think that was smoking my oil (buring it) and then it was just getting sucked out of the PCV valve and then burned in my motor. (It was smoking very badly and my rings looked fine) I would automatically replace that bearing if it were I, I assume it's cheap and it's relatively easy to do. Again that was the only thing wrong with my previous motor and it was knocking and before that is was just 'typically' burning oil like all others I've read about with the oil burning issue.

[Randy T.]

I will keep all that in mind, thanks for the advice.

'99 Cadillac computer did not work, I knew it was a gamble. DIC said service vehicle soon and it would not start, lol. I guess I will be sticking with an Autobahn program.

I cleaned up the oil pan, added some oil and set a piece of white cardboard below it, no leak so far, so I hope the pan did not get damaged where it got set on the corner. I have been cleaning up the valve covers and I am getting ready to start removing things from the block and mount it on the engine stand. I have to pull the coolant crossover to get the engine to fit on the stand.

[RCA1186]

Randy i had that same message and non start when I lost a ground to the pcm, possible reason it didn't work?

[bobsblue95]

Feb 16, 2013 21:39:01 GMT -6 Randy T. said:

...'99 Cadillac computer did not work, I knew it was a gamble. DIC said service vehicle soon and it would not start, lol. I guess I will be sticking with an Autobahn program.

Bummer... I was going to suggest trying different computers on the dyno. I bet there's another component, like the instrument cluster, that's breaking the communication chain and causing the no-start. I had a Pontiac GP that would not start with the wrong instrument cluster installed. I guess my point is that it could be a "networking" error.

[XJSman89]

From what it sounds like its not a direct plug and play, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't work. We had a 1970 Camaro in the shop last week (stock had an old carb motor) but this one had a 2004 Camaro SS (EFI) motor in it. Ran the new Camaro computer and everything. Im sure you could get it to work if you wanted to!

Our mini dyno day would be a great time to check out anything else we have always wanted to try out and compare or whatever. Our Mustang Dyno has a quarter mile feature, we've only used it a couple times but I'm sure we could get it to work. You just come to a complete stop, floor it, and it measures a quarter mile. Pretty cool stuff. We could do It on both cars and compare. the mustang Dyno factors in wind resistance and uses a load cell to apply real-world force against the car so that the slips are accurate, so it will be a good tool to measure just how much the swap was worth. ;D

I'm excited for you, man! Will you be doing the swap at home or on your lift at work?

[shelbyracing]

^WoW I wanna go there lol ;D Where or where is this dream place you speak of? haha. It's like Charlie inside the chocolate factory if you could only tune an Aurora. You're like 600 miles from me though

Do you think there could be slightly different wiring on Caddy? If so it'd be easy to swap some pins. Or is VATS preventing it from starting? I'd love to be able to use a STS comp to see the difference with more rpms.

[Randy T.]

Changing it at work on the lift, I will start it on a Saturday morn and finish it asap to try to keep my 3rd bay open. Most of my work will be prep and will be finished ahead of time, so when it's time to swap it will go a little easier. Looking forward to some dyno time, let's hope this all works out and that does happen.

Bob, you are probably right about the networking problem. The way I was thinking it might be is, is that the computer controls engine and trans, and there are modules that cover a lot of the other features like anti theft/vats, climate and so on. Everything seemed ok except the service vehicle soon and not starting. 96-99 Auroras and Cadillacs have the same computer, it's the programming that is different. My next step is to find an Autobahn computer, but I will still grab some other Cadillac pcms to try if I can find some cheap enough. I hope I can find an Autobahn computer that will start my car, but if not I will have to try to get a new program at the dealer, if they can give me an Autobahn program for a non autobahn car.

[XJSman89]

Feb 17, 2013 3:26:52 GMT -6 shelbyracing said:

^WoW I wanna go there lol ;D Where or where is this dream place you speak of?

It's great lol. We just got the new Dyno computer installed and were testing it Thursday and Friday, that's our IT guy's G8. You can see the load cell uncovered back there too, we had to check some of the wires.

If you made the trip up we could stick you on there for sure. ;D

[Randy T.]

Your pictures have not been showing up, Collins. Anyone else having this issue, or is it my computer?

I am glad I pulled the intake, there was water down in the valves. I vacd them and blew them out, then put some lucas fuel treatment in there. I am going to have to pull the plugs and get any water that may have got into the cylinders. Engine coolant that leaked out looked real good.









Metal stamp on the freeze plugs.

[shelbyracing]

It's not showing his pic for me either.
And an old farmers trick to keeping motors (or anything) from corroding while storage is to just poor a little diesel fuel in it (I like kerosene better since it cleans better) but it works really good. Father-in-law (old farmer) told me. I did it to my torn down yard tractor (was gasoline motor) and when I finally got around to rebuilding it everything was still super shiny. I pulled plug and cranked it for a bit (left oil in it of course) and it pumped it all out.
Even bought a junk yard lawn mower engine twin cylinder it was a little rusty so first thing I did was poor kerosene in the cylinders and let it sit a whole day. Then following day I changed oil, pulled plugs and cleaned them turned motor to pump out kerosene, and lubricate everything from where it was sitting so long. Then put plugs in and it fired right up .

Nothing wrong with some lucas fuel treatment though that's some good stuff just more expensive than some kerosene.
I'd hate to see any rust form on those cylinder walls

[shelbyracing]

And how about the diameter of them exhaust runners; are they larger than an Aurora's?

[Rocinante]

This is an amazing project, and I'm looking forward to following its progress. Whenever possible keep the pics coming.

It looks like a lot of hard and heavy work. How's your back been feeling lately?

[Randy T.]

Thanks for the advice, shelbyracing, I will keep that in mind.

Rocinate, my back is still ok, I am careful because I have had issues with it before. lol But, I did go to the hospital Friday with chest pains, diagnosis was some pulled chest muscles.

[Randy T.]

Feb 17, 2013 21:20:24 GMT -6 shelbyracing said:

And how about the diameter of them exhaust runners; are they larger than an Aurora's?

I will check sometime, I have some to compare it to.


This morning I pulled a couple plugs(AC Delco) and added some oil to the cylinders that could have had water in them, didn't see much moisture at all. Finally got it up on the engine stand this evening and pulled the wp drive pulley.

Doing some work on an extra flex pipe I have, that pipe protrusion has driven me crazy since I have noticed they are all like this, some worse than others.




My Grandpas old grinder, has a real hard bit on the end that eats metal pretty well.



Is that horrible or what?!!



Got about half of it ground off by the time it was time to go home.

[Deleted]

AHHHH! I remember my first 4.6 install. There certainly is nothing like it!

[XJSman89]

I know! My first and second installs were great. Too bad all the pictures were out of focus, though. I hope randy gets some in-focus ones for his.

[tipsymcstager]

I am not sure why, but the freeze plugs all have a metal plate that say "removal will void warranty". Since I have not seen freeze plugs like that, I hope it might be some kind of rebuilt engine.


hey dude, most places that sell used motors put those on.
it's like one of them pop ups in a turkey, when it gets to a certain temperature............lol
so if you overheat the motor they know, and void the warranty (or take it off)........................just saying, its not factory or anything its put on there by the boneyard, with thermal paste

[Randy T.]

Lol, camera.. breaking... can't take pics, cell phone camera missing, same with all my friends. Why would you guys want pics anyways? It all looks about the same.

Thanks for the freeze plug info, I had not encountered these before, no salvage yards around here care enough to do that, lol.

[Randy T.]

First pic compared to today's pic.







Almost done with this part!