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Post by gdouaire on Apr 12, 2020 18:03:24 GMT -6
Pre-emptive fuel pump replacement, just removed the cover -- finding i'ts very crusty 'n rusty (to be expected), but is it normal that the middle tube is not connected?
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Post by gdouaire on Apr 13, 2020 8:50:30 GMT -6
oops posted in the wrong category, my car is a 2003... but it may apply to 1st too, not sure. I checked the service manual about this "unconnected" port, but not enough details in there. I checked the replacement pump, and that outlet is not going anywhere. Maybe a provision for an another model, dunno. See picture below.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Apr 13, 2020 21:27:45 GMT -6
I thought mine had all 3 connected to lines, but I guess not, haha!
Good info!
I'll move this the the 2G section...
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Post by gdouaire on Apr 14, 2020 14:41:37 GMT -6
First step before replacing the fuel pump is replacing the fuel filter... and, well, that won't be easy... I'll have to cut & use fittings to replace the rotten part of the line. It's the only area that is rusty...
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Post by AuroraGirlFromMars on Apr 16, 2020 8:41:46 GMT -6
I love your copper color. And yes, i had same problem with filter. I believe the third line was for the evap canister and it connected with a push on quick connect as well, when i did mine. I could be wrong.
Or was that my park avenue...
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Post by AuroraGirlFromMars on Apr 16, 2020 8:47:40 GMT -6
Yeah after looking it up, im fairly certain the 2 there are send and return and the middle is the vent to the evap canister. possibly a p0440?
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Post by auroradream on Apr 17, 2020 14:43:23 GMT -6
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Apr 17, 2020 22:17:25 GMT -6
Yeah after looking it up, im fairly certain the 2 there are send and return and the middle is the vent to the evap canister. possibly a p0440? Gotta ask, where did you look that up? I found this; Tank Feed/Return/Evap Assembly Tank (top view) Looks like the EVAP line connects directly to a vent assembly at tank center, the line is too short to reach the pump. So, I'll agree with gdouaire , the "extra" port on the pump must be a provision for another application. Who knew? Haha!
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Post by gdouaire on Apr 18, 2020 7:59:55 GMT -6
Yeah after looking it up, im fairly certain the 2 there are send and return and the middle is the vent to the evap canister. possibly a p0440? Under the car, there are 3 lines running in parallel, and the middle one is the fuel feed to the engine, where the filter connects. The other two, I don't know. No line is rusted through (yet), I am just doing preventing maintenance, but you are right, by the looks of it, trouble was close !
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Post by gdouaire on Apr 18, 2020 12:26:32 GMT -6
So I almost got it right. ALMOST. Removed the old filter, cut out the rusty portion of the line. Reinstalled everything. The quick connect went ok. The compression fitting 3/8" female/female went right. But I messed up the threaded filter connector. Whatever this is, it's not a single flare thing. It's dripping. Bah. Aside from that: Before changing the fuel filter / after removing the fuel pump relay, the car ran for 3 seconds. After changing the fuel filter / after removing the fuel pump relay, the car ran for 20 seconds.... I think the difference of 3 to 20 seconds shows how clogged the old filter was
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Post by gdouaire on Apr 18, 2020 14:27:44 GMT -6
After lots of efforts, I was able to separate the old fuel filter from its rusty line. Looks like some form of AN8 fitting connecting on that fuel filter. I guess I could use an AN8 / NPT 3/8 adaptor to get a good match with a normal flared 3/8 line. maybe not. I'm not fluently speaking these fitting dialects
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Apr 18, 2020 23:52:49 GMT -6
Think it's 6AN to 3/8"NPT, but don't quote me... Could be 8.
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Post by auroradream on Apr 19, 2020 1:16:34 GMT -6
That is called a "GM Fuel Line Flare". The fuel line has a flange pressed into it that holds the o-ring. Then a slight single flare is put on the remaining line to retain the o-ring. I used a Mastercool 71475 flaring tool to make these for practice before I replaced some lines on my Aurora. Carl
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Post by auroradream on Apr 19, 2020 1:33:11 GMT -6
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Post by gdouaire on Apr 19, 2020 6:27:24 GMT -6
Thanks a lot all for chiming in, this has been really helpful!
I ordered the fuel line + fitting online at NAPA, will get to the store somewhere like Tuesday this week.
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Post by auroradream on Apr 19, 2020 8:47:30 GMT -6
That's funny, I ordered spark plugs for my Firebird and they will arrive at the NAPA store on Tuesday
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Post by AuroraGirlFromMars on Apr 19, 2020 17:05:51 GMT -6
Curious how that works, gentlemen...
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Post by gdouaire on Apr 22, 2020 15:47:15 GMT -6
I got the line "patch" kit from NAPA today. Looks like the right fitting, will install as weather permits, likely tomorrow. The line itself is around 12-inch long, just enough for this application, and comes with a 3/8 "female" × 3/8 "female" compression fitting.
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Post by gdouaire on Apr 25, 2020 13:26:15 GMT -6
fuel filter reinstalled with the correct fitting, no leak, done. After that, I replaced the fuel pump, finally. The rust made it very difficult; I reused the ring, but I sanded it before reinstall & used a lot of white grease to make it easier to turn and lock. [/url
]
So, this looks done. Will let it soak for a few days, running local errands only, but it looks good. Will then grease all around the pump ring and seal the pump door. The old pump was very difficult to lift through the tank hole... is it possible that 17 years in fuel made it gain a few mils in diameter? The new pump had much more clearance and was easy to push in.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Apr 25, 2020 17:53:58 GMT -6
Nice work!
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Post by gdouaire on Apr 26, 2020 14:29:36 GMT -6
I was so happy to put this see-through cover, using some leftover plastic I had, I think my reaction was too much. But I like it A LOT! 😂
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Post by scottyaurorav8 on May 9, 2020 15:07:48 GMT -6
Wow pretty cool idea for the see through cover. I like that. I will be changing my fuel pump very soon as well, b.c I am getting incorrect fuel reading on my fuel gauge. Pretty sure the little arm sensor on the pump has had it's day. A few questions:
1.) Must I change my fuel filter when doing this or can I just change my pump? I kinda fear taking off that filter lol. I don't wanna deal with fuel everywhere if I don't have to.
2.) I heard about the fuel pump swelling. How did you ultimately remove it? Just keep wiggling it through?
3.) I noticed when trying to order a new fuel pump they come with a spliced connector. Do I need to splice wires for a new plug to fit into my existing harness connector? Maybe since the fuel pump isn't OEM? I don't want to cut my harness if I can avoid that. Anyway around that?
Thanks!
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Post by gdouaire on May 9, 2020 15:15:38 GMT -6
Wow pretty cool idea for the see through cover. I like that. I will be changing my fuel pump very soon as well, b.c I am getting incorrect fuel reading on my fuel gauge. Pretty sure the little arm sensor on the pump has had it's day. A few questions: 1.) Must I change my fuel filter when doing this or can I just change my pump? I kinda fear taking off that filter lol. I don't wanna deal with fuel everywhere if I don't have to. 2.) I heard about the fuel pump swelling. How did you ultimately remove it? Just keep wiggling it through? 3.) I noticed when trying to order a new fuel pump they come with a spliced connector. Do I need to splice wires for a new plug to fit into my existing harness connector? Maybe since the fuel pump isn't OEM? I don't want to cut my harness if I can avoid that. Anyway around that? Thanks! 1) not mandatory, but changing the filter I realized how it was clogged and letting very little fuel go by... but that's a pain in itself. 2) yeah, lots of wiggling solved it. A bit scary at first!! 3) I am not sure if they make new fuel pumps with the older type connector. I have heard of people buying a new pump, then keep the old core but replacing the pump motor & other stuff taken from the new pump. Might be a solution. I hate cutting wires too, but they provided sealed connectors for the patch, so not that bad.
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Post by scottyaurorav8 on May 9, 2020 15:22:49 GMT -6
Ok got it. Thanks bro!
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Post by AuroraGirlFromMars on Dec 13, 2021 0:04:39 GMT -6
fuel filter reinstalled with the correct fitting, no leak, done. After that, I replaced the fuel pump, finally. The rust made it very difficult; I reused the ring, but I sanded it before reinstall & used a lot of white grease to make it easier to turn and lock. [/url
]
So, this looks done. Will let it soak for a few days, running local errands only, but it looks good. Will then grease all around the pump ring and seal the pump door. The old pump was very difficult to lift through the tank hole... is it possible that 17 years in fuel made it gain a few mils in diameter? The new pump had much more clearance and was easy to push in. I know its been a long time since you did this but I would recommend pulling that lock ring and putting a new one on. If you ignore it for years and it starts rusting worse or just gets weak, it may just break and your tank will no longer be sealed and then debris and dirt can get in the tank. Since you use grease it should come off easy enough. but you can buy a new one cheaply
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Post by gdouaire on Dec 13, 2021 7:53:05 GMT -6
Good point AuroraGirlFromMars ! Ordered a new ring, will not be that difficult to remove/install. I checked for ring install/removal tools, did not see any that fit our cars - anyone out there with a specific tool to recommend? I want to leave the bronze-chisel-and-hammer era behind me!
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Post by Marc on Dec 13, 2021 8:30:38 GMT -6
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Post by AuroraGirlFromMars on Dec 13, 2021 9:22:03 GMT -6
Good point AuroraGirlFromMars ! Ordered a new ring, will not be that difficult to remove/install. I checked for ring install/removal tools, did not see any that fit our cars - anyone out there with a specific tool to recommend? I want to leave the bronze-chisel-and-hammer era behind me! Thats funny... when I did my cars fuel pump(park avenue) i used brass punches and a brass hammer while laying in there. I literally cut 3 of the tangs off with the punches before i could get it to budge. LOL On my 1980 gmc, I actually ended up breaking the retaining part on the metal gas tank with them too.... it wouldnt budge.
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Post by gdouaire on Dec 13, 2021 15:55:55 GMT -6
not sure - I have seen a lot of ads for "universal" tools, but our cars have a very unique diameter for the fuel pump/sender unit ring... 94mm... I have yet to see one that works for rings under 5" diameter.
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Post by AuroraGirlFromMars on Dec 13, 2021 20:38:08 GMT -6
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