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Post by tvthegreat on Mar 5, 2014 23:19:41 GMT -6
I am unsure of what kind of transmission my 2003 4.0L Aurora has. I believe it has a 4T80-E transmission. I have a P0741 code, which is has a SES light & the code reads...Torque converter CKT performance or stuck off. I have a service bulletin of 04-07-30-034A, which states the trans must be removed & revised seals installed. I also have seen that a transmission solenoid valve needs to be replaced with the side cover removed with out the transmission removed. Here is one of the links pointing to the solenoid issue... www.cadillacforums.com/forums/electrical-technical-information/203046-malfunction-indicator-light-p0741-p1860.html I wont probably repair the issue myself, but kinda need to know if the shop needs to remove the transmission or not. Thanks fot the info in advcance. Troy
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Mar 6, 2014 11:35:52 GMT -6
Had same issue before you assume its a sensor you need to check the trans pan for metal etc. You do need to remove the trans to change the sensor but some people was able to do it without removing it but than its tight fit to remove and put the new sensor in... i would definitely replace the Torque converter if you going to remove the trans. If you do have metal in the pan than you deff need to rebuild the trans .. mine had metal it cost me 3k to rebuild with 5 year or 75k warranty.
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Post by oldwino on Mar 6, 2014 15:04:56 GMT -6
If the problem is the Torque Converter Clutch Control Solenoid, it just costs me $1600 to have it replaced at a Caddy dealer 800 miles from home. I had P1860 and P0741. No need for a complete rebuild in my case.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Mar 6, 2014 16:01:22 GMT -6
wow thats too much $ for this job:(... but p1860 will cause p0741 to come up.
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Post by oldwino on Mar 6, 2014 17:25:24 GMT -6
wow thats too much $ for this job:(... but p1860 will cause p0741 to come up. Yes it was too much($1200 of it labor), but as I was 800 miles from home and needed the car to get there, I bit the bullet and went to a reputable dealer and got 12 month/12k mile warranty. If it happened at home, I'd done the job myself. Yes the P1860 showed up 1st.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Mar 6, 2014 17:51:15 GMT -6
.. Thats y i dont like dealers not only price but cuz 12m/12k warranty is sucks i mean i can do 12k less than 4 month on my car.
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Post by tvthegreat on Mar 12, 2014 18:49:30 GMT -6
I dont have the P1860 code, just the P0741. There is no way I will have the trans rebuilt. I only paid $2700 for the car 2 1/2 years ago & now has 175k miles. Maybe I'll give a few trans companys a call & see if they know what I am talking about right away & an estimate. The trans IS a 4T80-E, correct?
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Post by tvthegreat on Mar 12, 2014 18:59:20 GMT -6
I did a little more research on the trans solenoid issue, Here is the information I found out. It looks like you need the P0741 + P1860 for the solenoid to be bad, not just the P0741 in my case...... Do NOT use this procedure if you have P0741 but P1860 is not present. P1860 tests the electrical circuit. P0741 tests an expected response in the hydralic circuit that may or may not be caused by a bad TCC PWM Solenoid. If P1860 is not present then the electric circuit which includes the TCC solenoid is almost certainly ok. When P0741 is the primary cause the vehicle may be experiencing additional symptoms such as surge or chuggle. This is a different problem that is described in the GM service bulletin, Subject: Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0741, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Excessive Slip, Transaxle Chuggle, Slip/Surge (Inspect/Replace Internal Transaxle Components) #04-07-30-034 - (08/06/2004) See the thread: www.cadillacforums.com/forums...60-1998-a.htmlTROUBLESHOOT: Step 3.1 Verify that the TCC switch at the brake pedal is operating correctly. It switches a B+ power signal form IGN 1 fuse to both the TCC and Cruise Control. Test the switch by verifying that pressing the brake pedal will release the cruise control. A loose switch can bounce around and cause the TCC Solenoid to engage and and disengage randomly. Step 3.2 Test the circuit from the switch to the PCM by checking voltage at PCM C2, terminal 80. With the ignition ON but not running there should be B+ voltage that turns off when the brake pedal is pressed. The B+ signal must be present to allow the TCC Solenoid to engage.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Mar 13, 2014 6:14:45 GMT -6
if you like the car than fix it otherwise get another one . but this job will not cost less than 1200 and for me it was few parts bad sometimes you can buy rebuild trans for like 1500$ and shops will put in for u for add 500$ but to remove the trans and put back in its about 24 hour job. if you had 3.5 v6 it a lot easier and even to rebuild that trans cost 1500-2k.
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Post by tvthegreat on Mar 13, 2014 13:23:29 GMT -6
The car drives fine. The only thing is the torque converter dosent lock-up & the CEL is on. If it is expensive, I'll just continue to drive it the way it is. Just thought I would ask to see if anyone ran into the same problem as me & to see if any other repairs or comments, I guess not. If I just going to just throw $$$ at it, this website wouldnt be needed. All the answeres to any questions would be just pay someone to rebuild it or replace the car.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Mar 13, 2014 17:35:33 GMT -6
Its your choice but no one can really know what is the issue without someone actually doing diagnostics on the trans some ppl who had that po741 without the 2nd code was the sensor for my car was something else that had the code come up for others it was just bad torque converter. Most people will say its to much $ to fix engine or trans but they spend btwn 500-700 just on tiers another 1200$ for all shocks struts mounts etc and if they need to do a tuneup another 300-400$ and its fine to spend on that stuff even you already spend same $ as you would fix the trans . i dono about ur state but in NJ you cant pass inspection with cel light and 2nd it will eat a lot more gas than with trans working so you will spend almost same $ paying for gas if you will keep the car like that for a year plus u never know trans might just fail and than you need get another trans or another car and another car wont be 1 to 2 k it be more and if you get another car the trans can die next day .
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Post by ottoracefan on Mar 15, 2014 17:14:30 GMT -6
My P0741 code came on 5 1/2 years ago and we've driven it without doing any further diagnosis or repair. We haven't had the P1860 code so we assume that a full transmission rebuild would be required to make the CEL go out.
We don't put many miles on the car so the lack of torque converter lock-up doesn't cost us much in lost fuel mileage. We have put ~30,000 miles on the car since the code showed up.
The car runs fine, shifts fine, no obvious problems except the CEL light.
I have heard estimates of a 1-2 mpg penalty on the highway without torque converter lock-up and that sounds reasonable to me. It would take a lot of lost fuel mileage to cover a $2,000-3,000 transmission rebuild.
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Post by awehlage on Mar 15, 2014 19:08:51 GMT -6
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Post by tvthegreat on Mar 19, 2014 18:20:57 GMT -6
Hello all, I don’t have the P1860 code, if I did the solenoid valve would probably need replacement per the tech bulletin. P1860 & P0741 codes coincide with each other, but since I only have the P0741, there is probably a different repair as per the tech bulletin (t/c & seals). All I am wondering is if someone here had the P0741 code alone & did a repair or the trans repaired. I understand there is probably a $2k-$3k rebuild on the trans, but there may also be another repair that someone has also ran across. I also understand that I should have the code properly diagnosed, but I don’t have that luxury. I have seen on other blogs that a complete trans flush had repaired the P0741 code due to dirty filter & fluid or a ECM with a bad pin or wire. But don’t know if someone here has first-hand knowledge of that being the case. Each case is individually different & requires a different diagnosis, but a starting point from first-hand knowledge will direct me in the right area. Ottoracefan response is kinda what I'm looking for. He has the exact issue as me, without the second code.
Thanks! Troy
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Post by rorafan on Mar 20, 2014 11:25:45 GMT -6
There was a thread awhile back where someone used an additive called "Lubegard" that seemed to help with P0741 (for awhile anyway). Here's the thread - long but good read: aurorah.proboards.com/thread/2371Also aurorah.proboards.com/thread/2720I have no experience with the product but did test-drive a Classic with P0741. The guy had been driving with it like that for ~2 years...he claimed besides the light he'd never know it was an issue. It did drive just fine. He mentioned the MPG took a hit though. Might try Lubegard like above and/or just start with a full fluid exchange with Dex VI??
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Post by mxer201 on Jul 3, 2014 9:42:53 GMT -6
Interesting thread. My 02 keeps giving me the P0741 code, intermittantly. I reset it and the CEL stays off for a while. Never noticed any odd behavior from the transmission with the CEL on or off. Even after a few WFO to red line accelerations. I did drop the pan and replaced the fluid and filter some time ago when it started this. Fortunately the pan was clean, no metal chunks. I have wondered if there is a piece of debris in the TCC or is it slowly failing. I would like to fix it or have it fixed, but since the car is for sale I'll probably just keep resetting it.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Jul 3, 2014 15:51:19 GMT -6
4.0 or 3.5?
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Post by mxer201 on Jul 3, 2014 18:43:48 GMT -6
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Jul 4, 2014 23:14:13 GMT -6
about 3k to rebuild 3.5 about 2k
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Post by mxer201 on Jul 7, 2014 14:20:01 GMT -6
While on the trans subject, at 70 mph, about what rpm are you running? I'm at 2300 to maybe 2350. Normal?
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Jul 9, 2014 10:22:58 GMT -6
thats correct i am same about 2300
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Post by mxer201 on Jul 9, 2014 10:55:26 GMT -6
thats correct i am same about 2300 So then my TCC solenoid must be working.......most of the time. If the TCC failed the trans would never go into OD? As I mentioned does it sound like I have an intermittant TCC problem? But enough of a problem for it to set a code.
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XJSman89
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Post by XJSman89 on Jul 10, 2014 8:55:35 GMT -6
The car couldn't go into overdrive without it; if I am not mistaken (I believe I understand it correctly) if you look at the gear ratios 3rd gear is 1:1, but the 4th gear (overdrive) ratio is .68:1. The torque converter locking at that ratio is what enables you to have 4th gear. Right?
I dunno if that's a bad explanation. All I know for certain is that you couldn't have overdrive without your torque converter. If it was intermittent enough for you to notice the problem, I would think that it would throw a code. When mine started slipping out of 4th it was apparent, and it started throwing codes. I just didn't realize it at first because I had a persistent O2 sensor problem at the time that kept the CEL lit.
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Post by mxer201 on Jul 10, 2014 10:21:35 GMT -6
Your explanation is clear and I understand. The car has almost 160k miles. And I can't remember when it started setting the code, maybe 20k ago. And ever since I haven't noticed anything different from the transmission. Still shifts fine. Whether fast or slow acceleration. Never fails to go into OD, so far. Maybe the trans is about to hand grenade on me in a slealth way.
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Jul 10, 2014 10:52:23 GMT -6
" Maybe the trans is about to hand grenade on me in a stealth way." lol
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Post by sempar on Jul 10, 2014 21:20:52 GMT -6
Fourth gear ( overdrive ratio) is completely separate from the torque converter lock-up clutch. The clutch can be commanded to lock / unlock in both third and fourth gear. Not having TCC lockup will not affect fourth gear.
John
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Paulaurora
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Post by Paulaurora on Jul 11, 2014 8:25:27 GMT -6
I dono so far when tcc code comes up it didnt go to OD. Had same issue on my car and my wifes Rpm at 70 was like 3k or more .
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Post by malibu5437 on Jul 29, 2014 18:11:21 GMT -6
Shouldn't you be able to see the rpms dip slightly when the converter locks up? I also have the tcc code.
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Post by malibu5437 on Jul 29, 2014 18:12:40 GMT -6
My rpm at 65 is between 2100-2200.
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